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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 8:01:30 GMT
I just want to clarify my stance on a couple things..
I'm not anti-pirate, I hesitate to admit I actually think it's kind of cool. Yes, it's illegal, but it's pretty much a victimless crime, it doesn't harm anyone, except maybe the bigwigs who may lose a few listeners, but they're bloated enough with the proceeds of the industry they can afford the loss and wont go hungry.. Besides, if they're losing listeners it's their own fault, regardless of who they point fingers at.
But part 15 is it's own thing. It comes down to doing something with nothing.. and doing it legally, without having to look over your shoulder while doing it. It's not a rebel cause, it's a casual pastime which has a potential of being something more without needing to resort to stepping outside the law. There is no reason to blur the line between these two forms of broadcasting, and if you do then part 15 gets swallowed up. The two are not compatible. Pirate Radio is the more powerful entity, the two can exist separately, but it's absolutely impossible to merge them together. This is my objection to allowing pirate radio to invade part 15 forums.
To each his own, do what you want to do, but don't poison the waters in the territories of those who don't live by your objectives.
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Post by part15engineer on Mar 12, 2017 14:05:24 GMT
i feel the same way but too many part 15 broadcasters are inadvertently roped into the pirate category by overzealous agents even though they were attempting to be compliant but were found to be slightly out of compliance and then there is the gerry gaule situation where he was in a situation where it was near impossible to be out of compliance and his equipment was confiscated anyway and his landlord pressured to intimidate gerry into turning over his talking house to the fcc. i fear under this renewed push against pirates we may see more of this nationwide.
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Post by mark on Mar 12, 2017 16:34:51 GMT
I am not anti-pirate also but I can see why licensed stations get upset. They have to spend thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for licenses, land for a high tower transmitter, the transmitter alone is $$$, the cost of everything else including paying rights(big $$ for them) and then need ads to make money and enough to thrive as a business.
When someone comes along and does it for free from their bedroom and cuts into their market share they get upset, understandably.
But since huge corporations now own most stations they are not hurt by a few amateur people doing this.
Yes it's a victimless "crime" but I do it legally so I don't have to look over my shoulder all the time but even though Canada's a little better for FM at least it could still be more relaxed and I think that would stop a lot of the pirate stuff and no one would be hurt.
Mark
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 17:06:53 GMT
I agree Mark, but it's not my point.. But it is true that pirates just take what the licensed stations have worked and paid for to acquire, and it can be particularly damaging to the smaller privately own stations.. so I really shouldn't have called it a victimless crime.
So then, the consideration is really three distinct broadcasters; licensed, legal unlicensed, and pirate. I don't know if pirates receive open arms on licensed station forums or not.. maybe they do, I don't know, but I suspect not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 17:08:12 GMT
We Are Unqualified To Have Staunch Opinions
We are free in our society to be incompletely educated about issues for which we hold strong beliefs.
So-called "part 15" forums are a natural place to express points of view about "the rules".
Just because we are "convinced" of what we think does not mean it is completely true... it may only be somewhat true.
I like the guideline used by TheLegacy at his liberal website "The Initiative": his No. 1 standard is the rule "cause no interference". He has written at length about recommended practices for checking and double checking the channel, pay close attention to adjacent channels, watch for harmonics and out-of-band spurious spikes, careful about blanking-out nearby radios, etc.
And I agree with myself when I suggest that the main mission of the Part 15 Rules is to place a cap on interference... specifically "interference to radios and stations".
A law education quickly sweeps law students away by informing them that laws, rules, and regulations are only a point of reference inside of a much larger arena within which we find case law, precedents and other extenuating circumstances that weigh in a final determination regarding a particular incident.
None of this means that I "promote" or "defend" piracy. I stop short of even trying to define "piracy". I think it's a slang word that is better replaced by the term "free radio", not my own finding, but a recommendation made in historic events at Free Radio Berkeley.
The public ignorance about the difference between "pirate radio" and "legal part 15 radio" is dangerous because the public is famous for senseless mob-thought and will easily condemn part 15ers without wanting to allow a fair defense. The hate monger Michael O'Reilly is fanning the sparks by his shouting about "bad pirates" and all the lies he spouts... for example the lie about "pirates taking away listeners".
Listeners are looking for something to enjoy on radio and what O'Reilly conveniently fails to acknowledge is that corporate monopoly stations present nothing of interest... the listeners they "lose" are listeners they never had.
But let's get back to my opening sentiment...
We don't have to know what we're talking about. The ALPB Forums welcome us to talk about it all we want. These days being wrong is being presidential.
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 17:17:27 GMT
i feel the same way but too many part 15 broadcasters are inadvertently roped into the pirate category by overzealous agents even though they were attempting to be compliant but were found to be slightly out of compliance and then there is the gerry gaule situation where he was in a situation where it was near impossible to be out of compliance and his equipment was confiscated anyway and his landlord pressured to intimidate gerry into turning over his talking house to the fcc. i fear under this renewed push against pirates we may see more of this nationwide. That is a problem, and one of the reasons I tend to defend HB and Bill, he has emphasized the part 15 distinction in a few recent articles and in in comments published in Radio World and other places. No one else is doing that. So again, what you say emphasizes the need of not promoting broadcasting methods and activities which are outside the rules when within the confines of a predominate part15 topic site. |
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Post by mark on Mar 12, 2017 17:29:36 GMT
Bottom line..the legal unlicensed category is to restrictive and a small relaxing of the rules, even allowing Canada's 100uV/M@30 meters in the USA wouldn't victimize anyone. And even that is minuscule.
And I understand the point about not mixing up part 15 with pirate.
By relaxing the part 15 rules slightly would help to lessen the pirate problem, in my opinion, AND devise a way for the hobby broadcaster to know when they're over the limit other than having a 15,000 dollar meter and knowing how to use it.
Mark
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 17:48:59 GMT
We Are Unqualified To Have Staunch Opinions ...I like the guideline used by TheLegacy at his liberal website "The Initiative": his No. 1 standard is the rule "cause no interference". He has written at length about recommended practices for checking and double checking the channel, pay close attention to adjacent channels, watch for harmonics and out-of-band spurious spikes, careful about blanking-out nearby radios, etc... ..The public ignorance about the difference between "pirate radio" and "legal part 15 radio" is dangerous because the public is famous for senseless mob-thought and will easily condemn part 15ers without wanting to allow a fair defense. The hate monger Michael O'Reilly is fanning the sparks by his shouting about "bad pirates" and all the lies he spouts... for example the lie about "pirates taking away listeners".. Listeners are looking for something to enjoy on radio and what O'Reilly conveniently fails to acknowledge is that corporate monopoly stations present nothing of interest... the listeners they "lose" are listeners they never had. The "initiative" objective to not cause interference is honorable, and it can be called whatever it wants, such as "Free Radio" which is not as negative sounding as the more established name "Pirate", and there is good argument that the powers that be have stolen ownership of the airwaves which in truth belong to everyone. Piracy is generally either acts of revolution, or something as low as a spiteful do-what-I-wanna-do self righteous act. Many "free radio" stations go on for years before being finally getting squashed, all of them must operate outside the law to be in existence. This has been going on for at least 50 years and all of them only last a limited time.
What is the influence which causes a "free radio" movement to want and infest part15 with their objectives?? I can only speculate that it is because their are those who have tried operating part15 but can fond no satisfaction with it, so they stray the rules and desire to justify it by taking others in the part15 community with them.
Corporate monopoly stations are indeed mostly crap and are lack diverse caricature. This may be part of the reason piracy arises, but mostly I think it's just people having fun.
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 17:51:57 GMT
Bottom line..the legal unlicensed category is to restrictive and a small relaxing of the rules, even allowing Canada's 100uV/M@30 meters in the USA wouldn't victimize anyone. And even that is minuscule. And I understand the point about not mixing up part 15 with pirate. By relaxing the part 15 rules slightly would help to lessen the pirate problem, in my opinion, AND devise a way for the hobby broadcaster to know when they're over the limit other than having a 15,000 dollar meter and knowing how to use it. Mark I agree completely. But believe that to ignore the laws is not a useful method to incite a change. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 17:56:41 GMT
Efforts Toward Public Education
End80 says: "That is ... one of the reasons I tend to defend HB and Bill, he has emphasized the part 15 distinction in a few recent articles and in in comments published in Radio World and other places. No one else is doing that."
Important point! Yes, Bill is to be commended for spearheading an effort to inform people about the distinction between legal low power and illegal over-power. Getting the word out is important and we need more of it.
Even with that the majority of people are not paying attention to the details, and are still apt to become driven into a frenzy over "pirates".
In some states it isn't so much the public that warrants fear, it's the law enforcement sector. Cynical prosecutors and police knowingly level false charges against people as a routine way of doing business to the benefit of lawyers, courts and jails. Accusing someone of "felony broadcasting" leaves the question of "legality" to a trial, $250,000 later.
Part 15 is a vulnerable target of the "piracy hounds" when they come sniffing. Our quaint little obedience to the millimeters and nano-watts does not safeguard us from the growing threat of being "criminalized".
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 18:11:48 GMT
I doubt that "the majority of the people" even care if a station is legal or not. The general public will simply tune to whatever they like. The piracy hounds being driven to a frenzy are only those directly connected to the industry. I just desire that the part15 crowd remain separate from the mess, and there is no reason it can't.
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Post by mark on Mar 12, 2017 18:24:19 GMT
Also to add....In Canada the reason any transmitter used has to be certified by an approved lab, even homebuilt, is because the average person doesn't have the expensive equipment to measure their own transmitter for compliance.
A lot of "pirates" are over but unknowingly, not willfully.
For the record I operate legally to the best of my knowledge with a Decade MS100 transmitter set by the manufacturer to BETS-1 in Canada.
Mark
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Post by End80 on Mar 12, 2017 18:30:42 GMT
Here in the states we have the alternate 15.219 rule for that (AM).. Without it I doubt there would be many part15 hobbyist at all. Under 15.209 or FM you can get better range by placing a speaker outside.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 19:04:43 GMT
Why Do It?
End80 has got me curious about "Why people get involved in the part 15 hobby." The quote that triggered it is: "Here in the states we have the alternate 15.219 rule for that (AM).. Without it I doubt there would be many part15 hobbyist at all."
That seems right. With 15.219 there is the mysterious opportunity to tinker with ground radials and better locations to get some outreach. But it isn't outreach alone that attracts them...
Some part 15ers only want to transmit in their own place of residence and aren't too concerned about other households.
But just guessing it is probably right to think that most of them want to serve an audience.
Time was when people would invite a group in for a private music concert... long ago with actual instruments... more recently for phonograph records. Although once everybody had a phonograph and a radio the need to invite the group over for entertainment changed... now we invite people over to eat, drink... maybe watch football (for some), but the radio and music part is probably limited to private activity.
I used to invite women (one at a time) to listen to music... I was a real pain-in-the-bubuck pushing classical music but there was always dinner involved so it worked out alright. Come to think of it I never invited a group to listen to music.
Even with good signal coverage in the neighborhood we never really know whether anyone is listening... to me the sense that someone MIGHT be listening is exciting... that means I'd rather play a good program with a transmitter than without one.
The radio spectrum is a place. Once you get a taste for going there you want to stake a claim and maintain a presence.
Part 15 is the hobby that could Make America Happy Again.
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Post by mark on Mar 12, 2017 19:53:35 GMT
Here in the states we have the alternate 15.219 rule for that (AM).. Without it I doubt there would be many part15 hobbyist at all. Under 15.209 or FM you can get better range by placing a speaker outside. The remote for my car(locks and starting) goes further than part 15.209 in the USA lol! And that's the problem. Mark |
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