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Post by End80 on Mar 13, 2017 14:09:54 GMT
Shows you what I know about FM.
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Post by mighty1650 on Mar 13, 2017 14:47:19 GMT
Shows you what I know about FM. Honestly my favorite part of the hobby is how much learning is involved, I've always loved learning something new. |
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 13, 2017 16:05:45 GMT
Wow maybe I should check into renting a boat or land at the marina in Deltaville and then save for a Procaster and use a Barix box or some way to pipe my Internet stream into it. I could run a ground into the water and it would cover the whole town of Deltaville.
1630 is clear now and could be used for this again. Maybe some mods ccould be done so that I have AM Stereo so the folks with car Radio's in their Oldsmobile can hear real music on AM. The Harris format was great so is C-Quam so if I could get $1,000/Month in donations I could do this as I'm sure it will cost that in rent alone for the land not to mention electricity and an Internet connection out there.
Honestly I'd really like to see what that would do on AM because it sounds very promising to me and could easily do what I want and make a lot of folks here very happy.
As far as FM if ever made legal a good 7 pole filter system will eliminate the vast majority of the interference you suggest would happen. Ramsey use to sell a band pass filter. You could even use a notch filter where as only 100.1 lets say for my frequency would pass through. The rest of the entire FM band would be rejected. Another filter would cover 109-174 Mhz which covers the 2 meter Ham band all the way past NOAA Weather. You may pay $150 in band pass traps similar to what the cable companies use but modified for FM transmitters.
With that sort of filter system it is highly unlikely you'd cause any interference to the Air band, 2 meter Ham, Police, Fire ad public safety frequencies. These transmitters are getting cleaner even some more so than a certified Transmitter.
This information is a valuable part in eliminating interference because just like sex people will not abstain because Mommy and Daddy say so. These anti interference techniques should be discussed in the event someone is over the limit (and there will be some).
Next is the fact that some folks expect their consumer grade transmitter to be as loud as the commercial stations. In most cases it WILL CAUSE interference and here is why: The audio circuit in these inexpensive units just can't take the hard driven audio a commercial station pumps into their very expensive well built transmitters. This is where some get into trouble. You can expect 50-40% of that volume. For example on my Sony boom box at #8 on the volume control is where I'm at a comfortable listening level for most stations. Yet on my TX you have to turn up the Radio to #11 to achieve the same volume. This is when I do use a compressor/limiter.
Turning the volume past this causes my signal to distort and over deviate. Not good as this causes splatter and all sorts of issues. Its not even good for your TX to overdrive your audio for as time progresses you'll cause your parts to start to fail because of misuse of your transmitter.
An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure as these transmitters are sold and used in the tens of thousands every day. I've known Christmas light shows where as their TX is over driven. Wen I try and talk to the folks who did the show and tell them "Your Over driving your audio and this causes issues!" I hear "Its not as loud as the other stations". I have to spend time to explain why they should not try and make their transmitter as loud. We owe this to our fellow Hobby Radio broadcasters to show them the way not hide what we know and call names.
I hope this information finds some people well.
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Post by mark on Mar 13, 2017 16:24:57 GMT
I know this thread has got way off topic but just to mention Thelegacy's post about album rock.
He mentioned The Move which is of note because they had a minor hit here in 1967 "I can hear the grass grow" and a good song, but they like a lot of British Bands including Mungo Jerry, Slade, Status Quo, and others had huge success over there, in fact Status Quo have been legends over there for the last 50 years but are unknown here. Except for a few like myself who do know.
Mark
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Post by mighty1650 on Mar 13, 2017 17:38:34 GMT
I think a lot of those rockers had more success in the south as well, or at least in Dallas. (Dallas was known as, and still is, a rockers market. There are a ton of rock tunes I considered big hits that ended up being regional hits mostly for us.)
IIRC the Cash Box charts more accurately reflected North Texas radio for a time.
To Legacy, if your were referring to me... The interference I meant was co-channel, though you bring up an excellent point about protecting the air band. You are also correct in saying the cheaper transmitters are nearly incapable of being as loud as commercial stations. There are a few reasons for this, many of them cannot modulate much more than 80% and many if not most have the European pre-emphasis curve which makes them sound dull and "quiet" on US radios.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 13, 2017 17:57:28 GMT
I play Status Quo and not just Pictures Of Matchstick men either. This is yet another great band cut from the True Album Rock fan since 1984. The Move also did a song called "Fields Of People" which goes along with what I'm about with lyrics like "Wild flowers grow everywhere, vibrations flow. Things will have to change. Strange new ideas fill the air some people leave others grieve. Some will bare but things will change. Old Constance go new ones grow. All at once the world begins to love again. And the wild flowers grow out of fields. Fields of people, theres no such thing as a weed. Fields of hatred, plant them and soon they will breed. Wild flowers grow everywhere, vibrations flow. Things will have to change. Strange new ideas fill the air some people leave others grieve. Some will bare but things will change. Old Constance go new ones grow. All at once the world begins to love again. And the wild flowers grow out of love. Love for people, theres no such thing as a weed. Seeds of hatred, plant them and soon they will breed".
These statements are wonderful and to the point but again people won't never hear this creativity due to greed and dictatorship.
Keep Rocking from one Album Rocker to another. We'll make the change. The same old Constance of events dealing with Hobby Radio will die and new ones will grow. And the wildflowers will grow out of Hobby Radio operators capable of seeding more creative work and thus grow into a beautiful New Radio Revolution killing the hate, educating the musically brain dead.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 18:42:57 GMT
I like a lot of 'album rock', i.e., music found on albums that don't necessarily make it over-the-air on licensed stations. I like a lot of music. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's particularly 'good' or even creative, just that I like it. I don't think that putting down others' musical listening habits is a great idea, although TheLegacy's enthusiasm is admirable.
I think that what makes low power broadcasters unique is that they have different programming. Why bother, otherwise? It could be music that isn't often heard (and that isn't hard, given that playlists for most stations tend to be numbered in the 10s rather than the thousands), or talk programming that is marginalized, or Old Time Radio(which I NEVER hear anymore on mainstream stations), or whatever.
This different programming also tends to be what the station operators themselves like, and want to hear. There are reasons why mainstream, licensed statons don't play it. They wouldn't get many listeners. Funny, though, neither do we.
We're getting way off topic in this particular thread.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 13, 2017 23:15:13 GMT
We were talking about views on Pirate Radio in the beginning. I'm stating why there is a public need (or want) for it to exist(to level the field). Talking to a few FREE Radio friends I have who told me that when they had to go off the air for a bit that people finally called them and said "Hey man we dig the music! When will you be back?" This tells the story that given the chance by allowing more power for the bedroom DJ's we'd be a household word or accepted.
You have to remember in the 60s-70s that sort of technology was way too expensive until the early 70s when part 15 transmitters were sold. Many folks unknowingly knew they were of wrong doing when they did things to improve range. This ranged from a 100 Ft copper wire ran like a clothes line coming out the back of a tube transmitter to adding a longer telescopic antenna or wire to a Mr. Microphone or FM transmitter with a telescopic antenna while using it as a neighborhood station.
I've heard a few home brew stations from many who just wanted to have fun way before the Internet. They did have some awesome range. I'd find them when traveling in rural areas or near a campus ground.
Again the idea of a home made station is once again rising it could be because of movies like "Pirate Radio" which did catch my Stepson's attention really fast. Others son followed like "Turn Up The Volume."
Why is the public yearning for this? I say its time to allow more legal power for John Q public and maybe time as well to expand the FM band down to 76Mhz like Japan. Keeping a portion of that band for Public Hobby Radio. Its a way to expand culture and creative programming as well as allow others to FREELY get involved in Radio and how it works. We are doing the public a dis service keeping it to the very wealthy folks.
It all goes together. Part 15 is like that first shot of Haroun it is a gateway drug to Pirate Radio no matter how you slice it. Even if you never heard of Pirate Radio many become Pirates from opening and operating their first part 15 Transmitter. There is no buttering it up or twisting this to be seen any other way. Be honest have you ever done anything to make your Wifi go further? from the cantenna to adding wire to the antenna it has been done until the antenna connectors were taken off routers.
Allowing some usable range for FM won't eliminate it altogether, but will curve some of the need to try for more. If there was a separate easy way to legally go a further distance many would be happy (We're talking 1-2 miles). It works in NZ ask yourself why it has.
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Post by End80 on Mar 14, 2017 1:44:23 GMT
Well... with a little luck the point of this thread came through anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 2:51:22 GMT
I see Part 15 as a rise to a challenge, kind of like how deadlines work for me. Can I do it? The pirate, on the other hand, simply is there to snub the nose at 'authority'' as they perceive it. Sometimes that's childish, perverse, and might even be fun! But I prefer the challenge. Besides, this is a hobby. I have nothing to prove and no customer to impress.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 3:28:04 GMT
Centinel, I agree 100 percent.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Mar 14, 2017 13:44:23 GMT
I see Part 15 as a rise to a challenge, kind of like how deadlines work for me. Can I do it? The pirate, on the other hand, simply is there to snub the nose at 'authority'' as they perceive it. Sometimes that's childish, perverse, and might even be fun! But I prefer the challenge. Besides, this is a hobby. I have nothing to prove and no customer to impress. Agree. That's why I have fun running QRP on amateur radio. |
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Post by Boomer on Mar 17, 2017 3:51:48 GMT
From what I read, lots of the pirate stations today are trying to serve niche groups of listeners that commercial stations aren't touching, especially since radio conglomerates and consolidation started, radio people aren't in touch with what's happening in their local town or district. Radio for the under-served has always existed, especially on local AM and FM, but it seems to be a bigger shift to it now, and it's more mission oriented than anti-authoritarian I believe. I have to wonder if some of the new pirate breed even knows about Part-15. One station probably looks at the success of another station and just uses they equipment they're using. Lots of Part-15 experimenters grew up with radio and kits and know what they can do, and experimented, like The Legacy mentioned, I too added the long clothes line wire to my Radio Shack kit, I think the Statuette Of Limitations has run out on that one..  Going by what's said about new pirates though, if reports of dirty signals are to be believed, it seems like they don't have good engineering experience in their ranks. Same as always, but the stakes are higher, with more power and running every day, compared to our kid stations that might have been over the line. Boomer |
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 17, 2017 7:11:37 GMT
At first Radio was not meant to be a cash cow machine. It was suppose to serve and entertain an audience. Later big corporations changed that with greed and wanted to put an end to anything that would interfere with their ratings.
This is the only real reason you don't have legitimate power allowance for Hobby Radio. But the winds of change are blowing on that one. The false facts on interference is like comparing apples to oranges. Meaning some of the troublesume pirates are running 100+ watts and care less as to the fact their transmitters could be an issue with that amount of power.
But flirting with a few watts under 10 with the better technology these days would not be as bad as the chicken little stories you hear. You can't compare NY and Miami with the rest of the country. New York City is overcrowded with stations already and thus the only frequency you might (and that is a big one) be able to use 87.7 Mhz or 87.9 Mhz and not interfere with commercial broadcasts if you kept your power at 1-5 Watts or so. But because of the total number of stations on the dial you could possibly have issues with mixing with other signals creating a third image. This happens often times in huge cities.
Pagers were a issues with 2 meter Ham. They would come across with other signals and thus you'd hear an image of that signal with other signals in the background.
As long as the playing field is unfair to both listeners and hobby broadcasters alike I don't see any resolution except possibly the one I talked about earlier as a way to straighten out what is wrong with this greedy country which has been sue them all crazy since 2003 when Napster was taken down by the RIAA however 14 years later and its still the same. Instead Youtube, Bittorrent, and Grooveshark clones pave way for continued music sharing. Yet they spent billions trying to stop a swarm of file sharing.
The same will happen with FM and AM as we know it. I predict the band will be expended someday to allow hobby access and yes more AM Translators as well.
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Post by mighty1650 on Mar 17, 2017 14:22:01 GMT
At first Radio was not meant to be a cash cow machine. It was suppose to serve and entertain an audience. Later big corporations changed that with greed and wanted to put an end to anything that would interfere with their ratings. This is actually very true, the first radio station operators were HAMs running the stations frequently out of their own homes. Though commercialization of radio did not take very long, IIRC KDKA started selling ads in the mid 20s. By the 30s everything was sponsored and nearly every program featured the main advertiser in the name of the show. Then comes along the Top 40 format around 1955/57 with fast paced tempo, sped up songs, and fast talkin' jocks to squeeze in the most spots possible. Then 1996 rolled along and radio went to hell. In all honesty, had automation been practical and affordable in the 60s like it is today I'd venture to guess there wouldn't be near as many DJs from that era. |
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