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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 4:40:45 GMT
No I don't have proof, nor have I researched it, so perhaps I blurted that out prematurely. But I recall this story and an initial glance through the threads again concerning this event paints a clear enough picture (to me) to confirm Gerry was at fault.. But I'm going to go through it closer and come back and spell out why I'm correct, or how I was mistaken..
I'll be back..
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 6:20:06 GMT
Ok.. he never backed down from his claim, but it doesn't appear he said anything more about it at all one way or the other.. As for 15.219 not being specifically mentioned in the NOUO.. Well I've noticed that happen a few times.. But to keep from drifting the point, let's look at just that portion of what Gerrys NOUO said: transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-319568A1.html"Radio stations must be licensed by the FCC pursuant to 47 U.S.C. S 301. The only exception to this licensing requirement is for certain transmitters using or operating at a power level that complies with the standards established in Part 15 of the Commission's rules, 47 C.F.R. SS 15.1 et seq. ..." Now stop here, what did that just say? Read it again. Look closely. Unless I'm misunderstanding, transmitters under 15.209 are not subject to operating power limits, only 15.219 is. So although the rule is not mentioned by name, it was observed in the citation by description. [ EDIT: actually I might be completely offbase with this interpretation] As for why it didn't provide details on how it was not compliant under that rule.. I think I can illustrate why by comparing it to a few other NOUOs which had also not mentioned it.. I'll come back to that, but for now let's continue.. Your operation on frequency 1700 kHz was measured at 1,800uV/m at approximately 175 meters. This exceeds the allowable unlicensed limit of 14.11 uV/m (24,000/1,700) at 30 meters established in section 15.209(a) for operation on 1700 kHz, see Section 47 C.F.R S 15.209(a)." As PhilB (I think) had pointed out in above linked threads, those readings far exceed even what a compliant outdoor Rangemaster or Procaster can achieve, but apparently Gerry must have been using a magic Talking House without a ground and legally installed indoors.. What else could explain it? Also keep in mind Gerry never mentioned anything about any of this until a month after it had happened, it was actually another member who had noticed the NOUO and posted it in the same thread which Gerry had introduced himself www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?642492-This-is-Jerry-Gaule .. From then on speculations abounded in the forums, but Gerry remained silent, and everyone was left in wonder. Two weeks later Gerry finally pops into the forum and says the agent stopped by and he didn't argue and just signed off the transmitter to the agent, and was done with it, then Gerry continues on with a long post about his shows and streams, and how to make request, and lots of links - appearing to try and to change the subject. The discussion went on a few more weeks but Gerry never said another word about it. The subject jumps to part15.us and goes on for about another month or longer with notions of that the FCC illegally raided his home and confiscated his equipment, and other conspiracies that the agent really being an impostor who came to silence his operation, and more ideas, and the HB and others are on the case to protect Gerrys interest.. But still no one really knows for sure what is going on because Gerry is still saying nothing - which gives me the impression he wants nothing to do with the discussion (over 150 post) and wants the topic to go away, so he remains silent. And unless I missed it, Gerry still hasn't said anything more about it.. It's all rather confusing to me, and I'm tired of trying to pin down the facts, but what stands out to me, is it could not have possibly been a legal install and Gerrys silence on the matter implies that he knew it.
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 6:51:18 GMT
i can only imagine how many FM transmitters it would take me to go from my house to the Deltavill Market. Each TX would need cellular internet with UNLIMITED DATA. Verizon has 4 lines for $45 each. Now I'll need WATER PROOF CASES. Maybe all smartphones to be waterproof. Every 300 feet I need a TX and Verizon smartphone. So each Samsung Galaxy Note 5 is $65/no on top of the $ 45/month. So we are talking $110/phone every 300 feet. 1 mile is 5280 feet so now Delta ville market is 1 1/4 miles. Let's go 2 miles just for a buffer. So now I need 10560 feet. 10560/300 is 35.2. ok 36 transmitters and smartphones will be needed. Now $125X35 is 4500 we need the phones now 36X 65 is 2340 now the service per month 36X45 is $1620/MONTHLY a total of 3960/month. If we get it legal for 2 miles which would you do? I guess I need to start begging. Sarcasm!.. Yes I do that too. The references I made pertained to serving the community, and that it can be achieved and done legally. The reasonable method would be to use AM because it's more capable. FM does not have the same luxuries afforded to AM under part15. Part15FM has little value in terms of range and never has.
I understand that you want power over the FM airwaves for free, but unfortunately that is not legally atainable.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 20, 2017 7:39:09 GMT
How many AM TX's would it take? If I did Carrier Current maybe it would work. I'd need a variable power TX say 0-10 watts. Someone sighted to build a coupler and then pray my house to the market is on the same line. I'd need a range of 100 feet from the power line.
Those Greek TX's have variable output and I hope C-Quam AM Stereo.
I heard WXGM AM 1420 in a car and it sounded good. Plus in a car I heard music on 540 Khz. Never before did I hear that so I wonder if someone is doing CC in my town. A dude on our towns Facebook page said he was gonna try it one day. If he did it I'll see if I can get CC working on 1630 Khz for Album Rock. Maybe we could do a soul project.
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 7:50:00 GMT
Back to Jerry (I kept saying Gerry) Gaule... I don't know.. But that is the impression I get. There are oddities though. I notice he received 2 NOUOs, the one linked above and also this one transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-319569A1.html both for the same transmitter.. and to top that off it was the same agent that got KENC.. and.. evidently the agent mentioned something about a newspaper article alerting him in this case too. The whole thing has a weird feel about it the more I look at it. I don't know. It's weird.
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Post by mighty1650 on Mar 20, 2017 11:21:48 GMT
How many AM TX's would it take? If I did Carrier Current maybe it would work. I'd need a variable power TX say 0-10 watts. Someone sighted to build a coupler and then pray my house to the market is on the same line. I'd need a range of 100 feet from the power line. Those Greek TX's have variable output and I hope C-Quam AM Stereo. I heard WXGM AM 1420 in a car and it sounded good. Plus in a car I heard music on 540 Khz. Never before did I hear that so I wonder if someone is doing CC in my town. A dude on our towns Facebook page said he was gonna try it one day. If he did it I'll see if I can get CC working on 1630 Khz for Album Rock. Maybe we could do a soul project. Should only take one AM transmitter depending where you are and how good your ground conductivity is. I get about a solid 2 miles that are relatively noise free, the signal itself gets out about 5 1/2 miles before the noise finally takes over. Scan function works about 1 mile out.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Mar 20, 2017 13:20:32 GMT
End80 Observed: "And unless I missed it, Gerry still hasn't said anything more about it.. It's all rather confusing to me, and I'm tired of trying to pin down the facts, but what stands out to me, is it could not have possibly been a legal install and Gerrys silence on the matter implies that he knew it."Mr. Know-It-All added: "A while back I suggested the possible reason. As you know, one can connect a 50 ohm antenna or a ATU to the output "F Connector) of the Talking House. If one can add a 50 ATU to the rear one can add a 50 ohm amplifier. For years Ramsey made such a device."
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 16:35:47 GMT
How many AM TX's would it take? If I did Carrier Current maybe it would work. I'd need a variable power TX say 0-10 watts. Someone sighted to build a coupler and then pray my house to the market is on the same line. I'd need a range of 100 feet from the power line. Those Greek TX's have variable output and I hope C-Quam AM Stereo. I heard WXGM AM 1420 in a car and it sounded good. Plus in a car I heard music on 540 Khz. Never before did I hear that so I wonder if someone is doing CC in my town. A dude on our towns Facebook page said he was gonna try it one day. If he did it I'll see if I can get CC working on 1630 Khz for Album Rock. Maybe we could do a soul project. Should only take one AM transmitter depending where you are and how good your ground conductivity is. I get about a solid 2 miles that are relatively noise free, the signal itself gets out about 5 1/2 miles before the noise finally takes over. Scan function works about 1 mile out. Really Mighty? Your part15AM gets out solid 2 miles noise free, and is listenable over 5 miles?? Gee, I wasn't able to accomplish that far with a salt water ground - at least not by observing the 3 meter rule. I was however able to exceed your range by ignoring the 3 meter rule.
Edit.. actually my 3 meter salt water ground probably did at least match your results, but the signal was not receivable at such ranges on land in an urban setting.. I presume however the signal traveled much farther over water and marsh..
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 17:07:55 GMT
End80 Observed: "And unless I missed it, Gerry still hasn't said anything more about it.. It's all rather confusing to me, and I'm tired of trying to pin down the facts, but what stands out to me, is it could not have possibly been a legal install and Gerrys silence on the matter implies that he knew it."Mr. Know-It-All added: "A while back I suggested the possible reason. As you know, one can connect a 50 ohm antenna or a ATU to the output "F Connector) of the Talking House. If one can add a 50 ATU to the rear one can add a 50 ohm amplifier. For years Ramsey made such a device." Yes, you and others had suggested possible reasons.. the whole episode was discussed at length on at least three different forums, and discussions occasionally arises again, but these discussions of this event was such as mess and difficult to follow and determine exactly what happened, and Jerry himself for the most part had very very little to say concerning it at all.. So what the hell happened exactly?? Still now years later no one really knows, except Jerry and the agent, and neither has provided any information other than the citation itself and a couple very short unclear comments from the one who was cited.
To me, the Jerry Guile case appears to be much like the KENC case in the respect that these were/are two popular broadcasters operating out of compliance, with KENC we know it as fact, with Jerry facts are rather elusive, but it is easy for me to get the sense the same (but not know).
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Post by mighty1650 on Mar 20, 2017 17:19:57 GMT
Really Mighty? Your part15AM gets out solid 2 miles noise free, and is listenable over 5 miles?? Gee, I wasn't able to accomplish that far with a salt water ground - at least not by observing the 3 meter rule. I was however able to exceed your range by ignoring the 3 meter rule.
Edit.. actually my 3 meter salt water ground probably did at least match your results, but the signal was not receivable at such ranges on land in an urban setting.. I presume however the signal traveled much farther over water and marsh..
Your up north right? I think the soil in the US gets progressively rockier and ground conductivity goes down the farther north your are. Down in North Texas we have the highest ground conductivity on the FCC chart, where a 500 watt signal can travel 100 miles or more during the day. Paired with what I consider to be an exceptional car radio in the wife's car, a good part 15 setup can travel quite a ways before it completely gives up. Listenability at the 5 mile marker is pretty poor but it is there and you can tell what is being broadcast for the most part. When it rains the signal jumps dramatically and the signal gets out even better. I've long considered the constantly watered and fertilized farm land that surrounds me to be the biggest contributor to my range, nothing exists to stop the signal until you get into town. There is also a fertilizer plant about 1 mile east of the transmitter that owns a very large chunk of land where they test their products. (Not to mention the two prisons nearby as well) Additionally the transmitter is located on what used to be a pig pen, decades of pig crap really helps things out apparently. I do know I can grow just about anything where the transmitter sits.
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 20:27:32 GMT
No, I'm on the coast of Georgia Tybes Island, closer to the Florida line, the ground conductivity in my area is 8. Last year I had experimented with moving my Rangemaster to my sailboat on the back river on the islands south end only a few hundred yards from the mouth of the Atlantic ocean, and placed the transmitter in the open cockpit towards the back of the boat and ran the groundlead out of one of the scupper holes and into the salt water.. this kept my install within the three meter limit. This method worked better than any other legal install I have tried by covering nearly half the island, I could pick up my signal in certain areas on the other side of the island as well as areas along the highway leading to town, but it was rather sporadic and inconsistent.. I contemplated that if I moved the boat center island then it would cover the area better, but I wanted to keep the boat where it was for various reasons.
Anyway, even with the above configuration The signal was good, but not rock solid through the south end while driving down the main road. This island is only about 2 and a half miles long by about a half mile wide. For you to say you are getting over 5 miles of usable signal with a three meter install, when I can't do that using a premium transmitter with a saltwater ground is difficult for me to believe.
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Post by End80 on Mar 20, 2017 20:55:23 GMT
I replied before reading your entire comment.. my bad. You explain a lot which I should have observed. Your area consist of a lot of open area with a very low noise floor since there doesn't seem to be much interference being produced in your area. So I guess it's not as far fetched as I initially perceived. My apologies.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 23:40:10 GMT
Why Is It We Believe the NOUO or the NOV?
No one anymore would disagree that law enforcement is known to plant false evidence and intentionally press fake charges against people.
Why is just about everyone on these forums inclined to believe accusations coming from an FCC inspection?
There easily could be the occasional inspector who has a hostile attitude for any number of reasons. To find out for sure would probably cost a fortune to try to duplicate the field measurements made by the inspector, which is all the more reason why a bad inspector might be reckless with his claims.
Carrying this thought beyond just Gerry Gaule or Ken Cartwright, it could happen to the most god-fearing honest hobbier on earth... exactly compliant station... false charges.
Being squeaky honest is not the key to being left alone.
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Post by End80 on Mar 21, 2017 0:20:43 GMT
There's no doubt that law enforcement entities are just as criminal and un-honorable as those they police, every organization consist of individuals, and those individuals vary in their character. That's where written laws come onto play, the written word has a tendency to be more concrete and with it provides the ability to counteract many improper enforcements brought on by individuals with a badge..
Not sure if I just made my point correctly.. I really need to go relax somewhere.
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Post by radiodugger on Mar 21, 2017 15:41:41 GMT
Why Is It We Believe the NOUO or the NOV?No one anymore would disagree that law enforcement is known to plant false evidence and intentionally press fake charges against people. Being squeaky honest is not the key to being left alone. I could not have said that better! Great thread, Carl! I was a 100 watt FM Pirate in North Ft. Myers Florida for five years. Doug Brewer helped me set up. His Party Pirate 102.1 in Tampa made radio history/notoriety. Five years and no issues. I shut down when Florida made it a felony. Doug
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