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Post by thelegacy on May 3, 2017 13:19:51 GMT
Not short because how many AM petitions have we seen come up in the last month at least two maybe three. That means that there are groups of people that are interested the problem is these groups all need to merge as one. And get hundreds of thousands if not millions of signatures. There needs to be an awareness of it and the problem is we're preaching to the choir on these forums. The best thing to do would be to get on the air and start talking about how hobby radio is an asset to everyone involved.y7
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 23:18:31 GMT
I'm curious as to how you think a petition could get millions of signatures (or even hundreds of thousands) by talking over the air to our tens (maybe hundreds) of listeners (combined).
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on May 4, 2017 13:10:55 GMT
I'm curious as to how you think a petition could get millions of signatures (or even hundreds of thousands) by talking over the air to our tens (maybe hundreds) of listeners (combined). On 1710 KC's I invite my neighbors over for shots and beers. I turn on my truck radio and they can here the simulcast of our LPFM. When they are sufficiently inebriated I place a pen in their hand to make their mark on my petition. So far I have one other signature besides my own.
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Post by jimhenry2000 on May 9, 2017 0:22:07 GMT
You know, I would really like to read NZ's equivalent of our Part 15 rules. Anyone have a link? But sometimes we in the USA want to ask questions about other countries in which already allow more power. Case in point NZ. This could help us in a future goal (should we get hundreds of people to be on the same page)to form a once and done iron clad petition for a few frequencies to where usable range and power is allowed. Real World use is the key as we seen happen when the FRS and even CB rules were changed because of popular use and demand. If a popular demand occurs for Hobby Broadcasters I am sure you'll see something done useful about it.
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Post by thelegacy on May 9, 2017 0:36:51 GMT
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Post by End80 on May 9, 2017 13:17:30 GMT
The following is excerpted sections from a book I've been skimming through, written by a lawyer concerning numerous different aspects of the national airwaves (not just AM and FM) and how the system works with who can do what. The book is: The Future Of Ideas - THE FATE OF THE COMMONS IN A CONNECTED WORLD by Lawrence Lessing, Published 2001. You can read more of it online at googlebooks or on the internet archive, the following kind of addresses some of the discussions here..
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'..On the wall in my office is a multicolored poster. The poster is large (maybe 30 by 42 inches), and it is titled, in beautifully retro typewriter font, "United States Frequency Allocations— The Radio Spectrum." To the left are thirty-three colored boxes, listing the legends for the poster. Thirty list "radio services." Three list "activity codes." Among the activity codes are "government exclusive," "government/non-government shared," and "non-governmental exclusive." (Appropriately enough, government exclusive is red, while nongovernmental exclusive is green.)
If you could tilt this poster and give it a bit of a 3D look, it might remind you of the famous New Yorker cartoon maps, where everything close is detailed and significant, while everything far is wide open and unimportant. So it is with spectrum as well. At the highest frequency (30-300 gigahertz), the allocations are a patchwork of tiny colored boxes, sometimes four deep; but as you move down the frequency range, the allocations get wider and less precise. The largest swath is AM radio.
This map, however, doesn't mark out any physical space. It marks the allocation of radio spectrum. The map says what kind of use will be permitted at what range of radio spectrum in any particular part of the territorial United States. It does not say by whom.
As I described in chapter 5, the "by whom" part is determined by a complex set of federal regulations. The FCC makes a decision about who gets to use what spectrum when, and under what conditions. These "licenses" are not really licenses to spectrum. As Thomas Hazlett describes them, they are simply permissions to use certain kinds of equipment at certain times for certain purposes. Their effect is therefore not so much to regulate a resource (spectrum) as it is to determine who has the rights to engage in certain kinds of businesses, where. To say that company X has an FCC license is to say that the government has given company X the right to engage in a certain kind of business (say, radio broadcasting) using certain equipment tuned to certain radio frequencies.
The manner in which this allocation of rights to use spectrum is made has changed, and it changes still. As Eli Noam describes, in the first era of spectrum use, spectrum was allocated on a first come, first served basis. This was before the federal government entered the field. After 1912, Noam's "second era," it was the government that chose who got what spectrum. This invited predictable biases: existing owners bought the favor of regulators, and regulators in turn protected them..
In the third era (now), the right to use spectrum is increasingly allocated through auctions. The government sells the right to the highest bidder (subject to a scad of typically governmentlike, mainly silly, conditions). That bidder uses the spectrum as the auction specifies or, in a small set of cases, the bidder is then free to reassign the right to others.
Politicians from the Left and the Right just love auctions. For the Left, auctions promise more money for the government to spend; for the Right, auctions sound like markets, and markets are always good..
...If a court addressed that question now, my sense is that it would clearly decide that the FCC's system for allocating spectrum is just fine...
..No investor or corporation built the radio spectrum. This resource was given to us prebuilt by Mother Nature. Thus, the claim to free access is simply a claim that the government not get in the way of experimentation by innovators.
at the very minimum, this possibility suggests a strategy for government regulators (if those regulators were not effectively captured by existing spectrum users). The strategy builds on what we know: that government control over spectrum use has stifled innovation; that it will continue to stifle innovation as long as existing users have a political channel through which they can defend their existing privilege. We therefore should move — as quickly as possible — to a regime where the right to innovate does not depend upon the permission of someone else...
We need to have some slack in the system. We need to have a certain amount of the spectrum not be in the category where it's owned...
As I've already argued, this is nothing new. The surprise is how blatantly this protectionism continues. Consider, for example, the effort of former FCC chairman William Kennard to license low-power FM radio stations. This was a good move from the standpoint of increasing competition and diversity in speech. Kennard was committed to finding a way to free spectrum resources to enable a broader range of speakers. And there was very good technical evidence that these low-power radio stations— which might support a community action center or a local school — would create no technical interference with existing radio stations.
The aim of the FCC was to enable local community broadcasts while assuring the broadcasts would not interfere with existing radio stations. The technical staff of the FCC conducted tests to determine how low-power the stations would have to be to assure no interference; the rules the FCC eventually proposed were more conservative than the technical staff recommended. "As a result of the FCC's conservatism, community groups in large urban centers with many incumbent broadcasters would find it difficult, if not impossible, to operate. But it would have enabled over 1,000 community organizations, churches, and schools to create a new medium for local discourse."
But the existing stations balked. At first they complained to the FCC. When the FCC concluded that their evidence of interference was not substantiated, the broadcasters went to Congress. Congress didn't care much about these low-power stations (not many campaign dollars, after all, come from them). It did care about the broadcasters who were threatened. So Congress passed a law to restrict low-power broadcasters. Large FM stations were protected from increased competition; that protection was effected through a law that silenced other speakers. So much for the First Amendment's demand that "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech."
An example closer to the technology at the core of this chapter is the case of "AirPorts" in "airports." The AirPort is a wireless device sold by Apple Computer.. The device uses spread spectrum technology within one of the three swaths of spectrum that the FCC has allocated for "unlicensed use" for data...
Now, I don't doubt that interference is possible for some of these new technologies. It is important that we be certain that new technologies don't damage important pieces of the existing infrastructure— at least those parts that we want to keep. But this complaint about air traffic was just silly. There is more interference caused by a hair dryer than by an Apple AirPort modem. And the notion that airport authorities should be able to stop progress to protect their telephone revenue is absurd.
What's needed in contexts like this is a balanced way to evaluate these claims of interference to resolve whether they are real or just pretext. More generally, what's needed is a commitment to progress in the use of spectrum resources.
Instead the politicians have done just the opposite. Claims of technical interference are not credibly evaluated. Indeed, the FCC has placed the burden on new technologies not to harm existing use at all. As Hazlett puts it, the "system is booby-trapped against new rivals, an irresistible 'attractive nuisance' to anticompetitive constituencies." Thus, for example, amateur radio operators are allowed to veto new spectrum uses if they interfere at all with existing ham operations. And this pork is not just because of a special favor to amateur operators. Any new use that interferes with any old use must step aside...
These are technical rules that protect the old from the new. So too are there political rules that achieve the same end. Among these, none is more significant than the commitment and eagerness of the government to sell rights to spectrum, in the way spectrum rights are sold now. This form of auction essentially entrenches the use of spectrum for particular businesses. The license "does not yield the right to deploy spectrum in alternative uses." It entrenches a way of speaking of spectrum that is resistant to modern sharing technologies: that the spectrum is "my property." Once that property is established, it will be harder to deploy technologies that "share" other people's "property." (This despite the fact that an applicant for an FCC license must first certify that it will not assert any propertied interest in radio spectrum.)...
It's not just a question of interference now. Now it becomes . . . opening the door by their consent to competition. And the last damn thing big companies want is competition...
..A policy from the FCC that does not create a strong opportunity for an alternative to develop is designed to protect existing interests. To not encourage or permit wide-scale experimentation, to not set aside much broader unlicensed spectrum, to protect existing uses against any interference— these are policies designed to preserve the old against the new. They are just what we would expect from government regulation of spectrum; they are much less than we should demand after the experience of the Internet.
The government's role should be to induce investment where there is a great deal of social value to be created. This is precisely the opportunity with unlicensed spectrum.
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Post by thelegacy on May 10, 2017 17:19:44 GMT
That book about the FCC and the corporations controlling spectrum is right on with what I've been preaching about for quite sometime. Tim's test showed how the equivalent to the CZH-05B (500 mW transmitter) was although overpowered for the USA part 15 rules was indeed clean as a whistle on a spectrum analyzer.
Plus notation of this is due as well. The BH 1404 (older FM Rhom chips from Japan were indeed a problem. But and here is the BIG BUT the newer BH 1415F chip has those spurious emissions corrected (C. Crane FM2 uses it). If you can remember some of the older certified FM transmitters as well as the older problem children CZE, CZERF, SainSonic FM Transmitters had the 1404's so STAY AWAY from the BH 1404 (Read your specs) google is your friend here.
I refuse to buy or use any FM transmitter with the 1404 Rhom chip from Japan. But the newer ones are indeed cleaner. Remember my old SainSonic?? You guessed it someone replaced it with a BH 1404 even though the specs said BH 1415F chip. So make sure it was not a refurb and that the chip was burnt out and then simply replaced with a BH 1404 chip as some companies will do this to save money.
Be careful with some of the refurbished C. Crane TXs too. Some companies will not always use the original parts when they substitute a part. They may have had a BH1415F chip go out and simply replace it with the 1404 as some argue its the same thing.
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Post by Boomer on May 11, 2017 11:02:30 GMT
I remember the BA1414, that was in my first Ramsey kit from so long ago. It was an amazing thing to go on FM and see the stereo light come on and hear stereo from the speakers! I'd used wireless mics and stuff for a long time, so that was a breakthrough, though the sound wasn't exceptional after all.
In stereo, the transmitter had a really hollow sound between the speakers, like the sound was out of phase and on some CDs it clipped the treble badly, needing some filtering and audio conditioning. Some of it might have been the 38 khz VFO used to generate the stereo subcarrier and pilot, I was always fiddling with that tuner cap to make it try to sound better.
The BA1404 was the first generation, and I don't think it's used in any new production. The BH chips took its place, and those are highly different and advanced stereo chips. You might want to compare some schematics Legacy, between the BA and BH devices.
Now I'd like to see an all-in-one C-QUAM stereo generator chip. In a way I think it's something Motorola should have designed and put out, made it so compelling and useful that many hobby transmitters would have been built with it. It would be consumer grade so as to not compete with their high end radio station stereo exciters.
Boomer
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Post by thelegacy on May 11, 2017 18:03:22 GMT
To answer your question as to how I would ever get anyone to sign petitions in a public fashion remember that Album Rockers are resilient they don't just give up I'm like people do today in fact remember what album rock was all about in the late 60s around 1967 when war was imminent and most of it was protest music. Don't think Album Rockers will continue to stand for this type of abuse on behalf of greedy corporate big wigs.
And remember that some album rockers are professionals. doctors lawyers etc. So my Avenue will probably be to start an initiative charge dues I'm talking some big money like $100 a month $200 a month for dues and then go after lawyers who will help in a discrimination lawsuit against the educated White listeners who Can't stand or will not stand for Rap destroying talented Rock on the Radio.
In our suit we will make it so that at least ONE True Album Rock, Deep tracks station can be received in Full FM Stereo (No Hiss) in every city in the USA!! This will be expensive and when our case is won the FCC will have no other choice but to grant Hobby broadcasters some spectrum to play Album Rock in which the corporations are NOT doing either because they can't or simply refuse to do.
I'm sorry to be so bold as to say this but we are becoming a minority not the majority and we are being discriminated against and a lawsuit is in order so to do this lawsuit there will have to be an initiative group with some serious money to make this happen. This is what I will do next. Sound like a pipe dream? You DON'T really know die hard Album Rockers than do you? Hey pot is legal now in some states and they kept saying that would never happen.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 18:16:20 GMT
Calling it What it Is
TheLegacy said: "Educated White listeners who Can't stand or will not stand for Rap destroying talented Rock on the Radio."
Oh, so it's a racist thing. Talk to Attorney General Jeff Sessions... he's your go-to attorney for racial hatred.
What about educated non-white listeners who like rock? Will they still be allowed to like rock?
What about me... although "white" I think rap is a clever invention and has uses in advertising and education. The fact that some of it contains explicit language is no different from any other music that contains explicit language. Sometimes explicit language is a sign of honesty and meaningful expression.
How do you feel about classical music? I was thinking about getting ballet tickets for all members of the ALPB.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on May 11, 2017 19:58:26 GMT
In our suit we will make it so that at least ONE True Album Rock, Deep tracks station can be received in Full FM Stereo (No Hiss) in every city in the USA!! This will be expensive and when our case is won the FCC will have no other choice but to grant Hobby broadcasters some spectrum to play Album Rock in which the corporations are NOT doing either because they can't or simply refuse to do. I'm sorry to be so bold as to say this but we are becoming a minority not the majority and we are being discriminated against and a lawsuit is in order so to do this lawsuit there will have to be an initiative group with some serious money to make this happen. DHR reacts: Huh? Who are we suing? The FCC? What if every city does not want a hiss free Album Rock Station. 19,354 Rock Stations? Shouldn't the cities decide for themselves? Or is the another Net Neutrality operated by the FCC?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 20:15:35 GMT
Free Educational Tids and Bits
TheLegacy might be interested in learning that rock music... all rock music... had its roots in negro music of an earlier time. The professional rock musicians know this and take great pride in knowing and playing with the old time black musicians.
"Rap" music is simply another evolutionary branch of the musical tree, and the stations that carry it are not at war against album rock, they are earning money from playing music that a large number of people want to hear.
Some of the prose poetry and word play in rap music is very intelligent and carries messages ranging from romantic to protest.
There are music schools that teach this stuff.
I myself favor the key of a minor because it can be played on a violin which I once studied. My interest turned to composing and after 4 symphonies, a violin concerto, some tone poems and numerous video scores I decided to conduct an orchestra on the radio which I am doing as I type this.
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Post by thelegacy on May 11, 2017 21:27:23 GMT
Certainly you can be a black man and still like Album Rock. Look at Jimi Hendrix he's a guitar God and he's a black man and one of the best guitar artist I've ever heard. There are some other great black artist that create some great stuff and I do play on the album rock station that I run.
My point is that my age group is in the fifties. Lots of folks in the upper thirties forties fifties and sixties love this type of music. But we are being discriminated by these young folks who have been brainwashed themselves since 1984.
Speaking of which I have been invited to be a part of a program on a train radio station in New Jersey. I have discussed this matter with him and he seems to agree with me 100% on a lot of this stuff.
What corporations like the nabr totally afraid of is that we as Happy Radio broadcasters May reawaken the Public's sleeping Minds since 1984 by playing more diverse music and then the public would more than likely start tuning in to happy broadcast stations. Interference has been pretty much muffled since these newer transmitters are getting far more advanced about filtering out harmonics and other types of junk.
Not to mention that one of the ham operators that I had a link to in the YouTube videos was a broadcaster for a broadcast company but yet acted like a lid on amateur radio. He couldn't follow the rules but I'm willing to bet he would be the first one who would stand up and shout if little Johnny quarter mile was receivable on his radio rather or not it was causing interference.
The object of the show that Anthony and I are going to start doing is to wake up the public and get more and more people interested in Saving hobby radio as a respectable medium and maybe get it to wear as 87.7 and 87.9 megahertz you would be allowed from 1 to 5 Watts on FM.
One of the ways I propose to do it would be to stick all the rap stations and stations that do not need the high-quality stereo on AM radio once again. This would open up FM for those that play real music and really do need the high-fidelity stereo separation such as an album rock station or maybe classic country or classical music. one of the ways I propose to do it would be too stick call the rap stations and stations that do not need the high quality stereo on a.m. radio once again. This would open up FM for those that play real music and really do need the high fidelity stereo separation such hasn't album Rock station or maybe classic country or classical.
The FCC needs to save FM for and only for stations that require the high-fidelity stereo sound. So in other words if you're a talk station he would automatically be thrown on AM. If you play rap you would be banned from FM as most of their listeners don't care if the sound goes much above 200 Hz. Now that would free piCK.
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Post by Boomer on May 11, 2017 21:50:37 GMT
I can feel for what TheLegacy is saying, commercial radio groups desperate to follow the trends and hence the dollars have changed the landscape of radio and keep it bland as possible. Remember when there were songs on the radio that caused controversy, not over rights issues like today, but social issues, Madonna songs, or whether there was satanism in a Led Zeppelin track, or even Boomer Castleman's Judy Mae song? I don't think that sort of thing would be possible today.
Legacy, there's a bigger picture than a rap takeover. Musical styles constantly change and evolve, and since funk and disco times pop music has gone over to be more beat and rhythm dominated. A style of music will peak, and where do you go after? Try something all new that's been brewing and start over, clumsily again, that's what every new wave of artists seems to do. Standard jazz probably peaked in 1959, and later you got the likes of Miles Davis and fusion artists who were played extensively on early underground radio, where pop radio took the smooth jazz side for a while.
It's the same with rap, on commercial radio it sounds like it's all about the booty and sounds like the same beat with 808 drums, and that's probably what you're hearing, only the most benign stuff. There's a great underground of more experimental hip-hop and rap fusions out there, but it's not given a chance on an easily accessible system, like on a radio station.
It's the same with Album Rock I think, people today might not know this fine music even existed, but it's really the fault of big radio companies that aren't allowing diversity on the airwaves, that's whose doorstep I lay that on. The net is our savior right now, with many Album Rockers carrying the torch in a lively scene.
If I-heart Radio falls soon as predicted, the best case would be for radio stations to go back to local owners again, and maybe there will be more Album Rock stations, because we shouldn't forget about the good music of past, as if it never existed.
I play all kinds of music, but here's some songs from a recent playlist on my station:
John Fred And His Playboy Band - Who Could Love You (Like I Do) London Underground - Ridley Road Nash The Slash - Swing Shift Flexi Version The Poppy Family - Endless Sleep Tomorrow - Revolution Ultimate Spinach - Pamela The Neighb'rhood Children - Up Down Turn Around The World The J. Geils Band - Believe In Me.mp3 Atomic Rooster - Tomorrow Night.mp3 East River Pipe - Dogman Clear Light - She's Ready To Be Free Jefferson Starship - Stairway To Cleveland (Found courtesy of TheLegacy!) Plastic Penny - She Does Poppy Family - Endless Sleep Everybody - The Shape Of Things To Come Wonderland - Poochy Paul Revere And The Raiders - I Had A Dream The Bees - Voices Green And Purple
I deleted some of the Star Wars songs and bits used in there for Star Wars Day, but it's lots of British Invasion rock and pop, and a few others.
Boomer
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Post by mark on May 11, 2017 23:03:36 GMT
"To answer your question as to how I would ever get anyone to sign petitions in a public fashion remember that Album Rockers are resilient they don't just give up I'm like people do today in fact remember what album rock was all about in the late 60s around 1967 when war was imminent and most of it was protest music. Don't think Album Rockers will continue to stand for this type of abuse on behalf of greedy corporate big wigs. And remember that some album rockers are professionals. doctors lawyers etc. So my Avenue will probably be to start an initiative charge dues I'm talking some big money like $100 a month $200 a month for dues and then go after lawyers who will help in a discrimination lawsuit against the educated White listeners who Can't stand or will not stand for Rap destroying talented Rock on the Radio. In our suit we will make it so that at least ONE True Album Rock, Deep tracks station can be received in Full FM Stereo (No Hiss) in every city in the USA!! This will be expensive and when our case is won the FCC will have no other choice but to grant Hobby broadcasters some spectrum to play Album Rock in which the corporations are NOT doing either because they can't or simply refuse to do. I'm sorry to be so bold as to say this but we are becoming a minority not the majority and we are being discriminated against and a lawsuit is in order so to do this lawsuit there will have to be an initiative group with some serious money to make this happen. This is what I will do next. Sound like a pipe dream? You DON'T really know die hard Album Rockers than do you? Hey pot is legal now in some states and they kept saying that would never happen." Read this and am speechless! Am I reading this right? We are not being discriminated against. First of all radio stations can play what they want, you can just not listen to it. As for white and black, Blacks created blues and rock and roll, and jazz. And the white artists and groups were just playing black music. The whole British Invasion lead by the Stones and the Beatles were playing blues Rock and roll and do-wop....black music. Was Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and countless others including all of Motown white? How many white do-wop groups are there? What about the many 70s groups like the spinners etc etc etc etc.....A lot more black Jazz groups then white. Blacks didn't always play Rap and Hip Hop. Even the Beach Boys combined Chuck Berry with do-wop and came out with their unique sound......ingredients, black music. Thelegacy, this is not a race issue...and a lawsuit? going to the FCC about this? Suing who? Thelegacy, with all respect to you, this is ridiculous. You are just upset that what you grew up with is now in the past as is what I like and grew up with. I hate it as much as you....Rap and Hip Hop is not real music to me at all....real music is not electronically generated, has chords, a tune and some structure to it. Do you think I like people with no knowledge of what a real instrument is and no talent at all "rapping" like they're out on the street and calling this music? In my music it's about romance, boy girl, summertime, girls, cars, innocence, etc etc. and it can be played on a guitar or a piano. Do you think I like all the pop singers, if you call it singing, that you hear now with 100% electronically made "music"? I HATE IT. Like you do. But it's not a black and white issue, or discrimination.....and a lawsuit....come on. My parents generation thought Rock and Roll was the death of music and I think that current pop and rap is the death of music....we all like what we grew up with. We all think the good old days are when WE were teenagers. All we can do is not listen to it. Also a lot of Rap and Hip Hop singers are white too. And whites listen to this too. We, with part 15 and BETS-1 radio can keep what we like on the radio. That's the main reason I do this, plus the hobby and liking radio. Wasn't this thread about rules of the ALPB? Mark
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