Bounced Signals Between ALPB Forums and Part 15_us

End80 stated: "Is it not informative? Yes. But a lot of the information comes from elsewhere, and the site can't claim ownership of it.
Is it not accurate? Not always.
Is it not promotional?, Yes, but some of the promotion is self, not hobby, driven
is it not protective? Not really.  It defends Part 15 AM, even obvious pirates, but is openly hostile to Part 15 FM.
Is it not pro-active? Yes, I'll give it that
Is it not instructional? A lot of the times (when it's accurate)
Is it deceptive?  Sometimes, particularly around Part 15 FM.  Also in not admitting mistakes.
Is it not maintained? I would argue it's over-maintained, particularly in the area of security.
Is it not supportive? Sometimes, certainly not for Part 15 FM
Is it not progressive?  Not really.

The biggest problem with the site as I see it is the ego of the webmaster interfering with common sense.  He can't take criticism, or admit mistakes.  Not only that, he (and his followers, it appears) seem to feel that said criticism is always personal, and negative.  Everyone makes mistakes, everyone is wrong sometimes (even me!), but the trick is to admit it, learn from it and move on.  Instead, the critics have their IP addresses blocked.  And I've yet to see a mistake being admitted (although through a period of several months, the reasons for the poor results of the AMT5000 in the AM Transmitter Challenge were gradually understood and accepted).

Criticism is positive.  If I thought that what someone was doing was crap, and that the doer was a moron, I would just ignore it (and believe me, I do that a lot).  I critique out of respect.

Plus, the webmaster seems to feel that he owns everything on his site, including internet links to other sites, and potentially the content and ideas contained within those sites (because he found and published them).  Forgetting, of course, that everyone else in the hobby can find and discuss those same sites.  And that there are a limited number of discussion topics in Part 15, period.  I've seen just as much discussion move from Part 15 to HB as I have the other way.  Good thing my IP is already blocked, as it can't be blocked again.

And as for these pirate discussions, they're really being overplayed.  Bill and others have always called other sites pirate havens (usually around Part 15 FM discussions), totally ignoring obvious AM pirates on his own site.  All you have to do is to look at some of the station profiles, with long ground leads - for those instances, Bill always says that he's not going to tell anyone how to run their station (at least on AM, he certainly will for FM).  And there is other piracy than the technical aspects of Part 15 - Bill seems to feel that it is OK to play music on Part 15 broadcasts without obtaining the appropriate copyright clearances (making up his own law in the process - similar to him making up his own law about it being OK to use FM on your property, no matter how large it is, as long as the field strength at the property boundaries meet some arbitrary measurement).

The point is that there are good and bad things with all 3 Part 15 Forums.  Two of the three I see wanting to improve and get better.  The other I see just wanting to hide, and retreat .  Unless that attitude changes, they might as well.

Ego of a small child. Tantrums that are truly embarrassing, like banning, threatening lawsuits and blocking IPs. I was never a member. I was not "kicked out". I am FOR people like Druid Radio David C and Carl, plus others that have been blocked by this (in my opinion) childish twit. It's a damn HOBBY! Not the government! Not some corporate pukes playing in the mire of a corporate cesspool spewing their effluvia. No. A HOBBY. We're like old men playing with toy trains, except it's micro transmitters!

The man, in my opinion, is SO engulfed in his delusional ego, he behaves like a man with SERIOUS delusions of how great he is! All of the good things Rich mentioned, and all of the great accomplishments done by him...are marred by his lawsuit-happy antics and seething anger at those who may criticize him or his site. Reminds me of a spoiled screaming child that won't let the kids play with his toys. 

I brought that Keith Hamilton quote over to Part15.us specifically to benefit owners and future owners of the Rangemaster, and Rich Powers openly accuses me of intentionally starting a WAR! I could get very angry at that. I won't though. I can be very stupid and narrow-minded as well at times. I suppose we all can. 

Doug

End80 stated: "Is it not informative? Yes. But a lot of the information comes from elsewhere, and the site can't claim ownership of it. Agreed.
Is it not accurate? Not always. I've never seen inacuracies.
Is it not promotional?, Yes, but some of the promotion is self, not hobby, driven Perhaps maybe, but not entirely.
is it not protective? Not really.  It defends Part 15 AM, even obvious pirates, but is openly hostile to Part 15 FM. Not hostile to Part15FM.
Is it not pro-active? Yes, I'll give it that
Is it not instructional? A lot of the times (when it's accurate)
Is it deceptive?  Sometimes, particularly around Part 15 FM.  Also in not admitting mistakes. Not deceptive about Part15FM
Is it not maintained? I would argue it's over-maintained, particularly in the area of security. Agreed.
Is it not supportive? Sometimes, certainly not for Part 15 FM Disagree. Part15FM are concrete rules and very limmiting. Blame FCC.
Is it not progressive?  Not really. Maybe a defining of "progressive" is in order..

The biggest problem with the site as I see it is the ego of the webmaster interfering with common sense.  He can't take criticism, or admit mistakes.  Not only that, he (and his followers, it appears) seem to feel that said criticism is always personal, and negative.  Everyone makes mistakes, everyone is wrong sometimes (even me!), but the trick is to admit it, learn from it and move on. 

Agreed.

Instead, the critics have their IP addresses blocked.  And I've yet to see a mistake being admitted (although through a period of several months, the reasons for the poor results of the AMT5000 in the AM Transmitter Challenge were gradually understood and accepted).

Agreed.

Criticism is positive.  If I thought that what someone was doing was crap, and that the doer was a moron, I would just ignore it (and believe me, I do that a lot).  I critique out of respect.

Agreed.

Plus, the webmaster seems to feel that he owns everything on his site, including internet links to other sites, and potentially the content and ideas contained within those sites (because he found and published them).  Forgetting, of course, that everyone else in the hobby can find and discuss those same sites.  And that there are a limited number of discussion topics in Part 15, period.  I've seen just as much discussion move from Part 15 to HB as I have the other way.

Agreed.

And as for these pirate discussions, they're really being overplayed.

Disagree. I sincerly believe part15 needs to maintain a distinct seperation from the pirate crowd. This Trump admistration with Pia's apparent about-face with his prior persona of being for the people, and couple that along with the employement of these "tiger teams" coming into the picture soon all pose a big threat to part15 broadcasters when they begin enforcing the laying down of hammers.. Thus far, Part15AM broadcasters have been left alone in the past decade with only a few NOUOs which all only occured in the same 5 or 6 states... These 'tiger teams' are to effectively be the calvary and their going to be spread out all over.. deputies so to speak, there's not going to be a shortage of enforcement agents any more, and part15 is facing the threat of being lumped in with pirates. HB has been pushing to maintain the distinction in the public eye, this is inportant.


Bill and others have always called other sites pirate havens (usually around Part 15 FM discussions), totally ignoring obvious AM pirates on his own site.  All you have to do is to look at some of the station profiles, with long ground leads - for those instances, Bill always says that he's not going to tell anyone how to run their station (at least on AM, he certainly will for FM).  And there is other piracy than the technical aspects of Part 1iiio5 - Bill seems to f?wael that it is OK to play music on Part 15 broadcasts without obtaining the appropriate copyrtight clearances (making up his own law in the process - similar to him making up his own law about it being OK to use FM on your property, no matter how large it is, as long as the field strength at the property boundaries meet some arbitrary measurement).

Based on pictures I have seen of many installs of member (both sites) and non-memeber "part15" transmitters as seen scattered around the internet, as well as the part15 transmitter manuals themselves, it's obvious that a substantial amount of part15 broadcasters are not actually within the letter of the law. But it's not your, mine, or Bills place or resposibity to police them. However, it is our resposibility not to deceive anyone into beleiving they are operating legally when they arn't. So instructions and advice given should be accurate and to the letter of the law. If someone decides to bend or break the FCC rules then that's their decision to make, and it is those individuals who will either reap the rewards or suffer the consequences.. (which usually just means forced to discontinue until back in complience).
Those who choose to operate outside the rules should keep it to themselfs while within a Part15 forum and not advise or brag about their ilegal instalations.. Actaul accurate Part15 information is what should be expressed.. That's what a part15 forum is based on.. it's not something else.

The point is that there are good and bad things with all 3 Part 15 Forums.  Two of the three I see wanting to improve and get better.  The other I see just wanting to hide, and retreat .  Unless that attitude changes, they might as well.

I think there is only two primary part15 forums on the net, however this one does have some part15 members, but it's not exclussivly part15 like the two.

End80, I've never said that Part 15 & pirates should mix. They actually don't any more on any of these sites (Part15.us, theALPB.com) than on HB.

I really think that this playing up of sites other than HB as pirate havens is a case of selective perception. Being a moderator both here and at Part15.us, I can definitely say that discussion surrounding the specifics of illegal operation is not tolerated. But it's pretty difficult to talk about what the rules allow, when you don't talk about what they don't allow. I don't think that there's ANY difference between the moderating approach here, and at HB - the lines in the sand might be slightly different, and the approach here might be kinder and gentler, but in all cases those lines exist (and on the legal side).

There are certainly differences of opinion from individual members here and on Part15.us as to what perhaps should be legal. Just as on HB.

I've been reading HB since its inception. Never felt the need to join for various reasons, but during that time I've seen numerous posts about AM operation, FM operation, and, let's call a spade a spade, pirate operation (including what should and shouldn't be considered pirate). I've already mentioned a few - long ground leads, music and copyright, etc. Does that make HB a pirate site? Of course not. When some have openly admitted operating as a pirate on HB, does that make it any less 'pure water'. Again, of course not. So why does it make it so elsewhere?

I don't see the objectives for all 3 sites any differently. There might be a bit more leeway as to what is said on some, and how it is said. But in the end all exist to promote low power broadcasting. To help others do it, and stay within the law. And (hopefully) have some fun while doing it.

Knowledgeable and talented individuals exist on all 3 sites. It would be nice to be able to co-exist without going through this exercise of recriminations every few months.

Ok.. maybe my perceptions became a little twisted by popping back in at inappropriate time frames and it caused me to lock into seeing things as more problematic then they really are.. I'm not sure.

It would be nice to have a co-existence between the part 15 sites - be it two or three.. I personally thinks it's almost necessary, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't stand much of chance.. It still isn't clear to me when the rift occurred, I just know it didn't use to be the way it is now.

I know this much for certain; what really sticks out more than anything; is that there is not a day that seems to go by in which I hear constant insults, sometimes excessively cruel, and constant open bragging about breaking in where they are not wanted and so on and so forth... The attacks against Bill and HB are so consistent that it is has become almost the most predominant topic found in the forums.

Carl rubs that I must be in love with HB, which I took as a little insulting although I realize he was just issuing a little ribbing.. But really what it is, is that it appears there's a lot of unfair persecution going on and I would just as readily defend most anyone. I do believe HB is a superb resource, and I do believe Bill puts forth a lot of effort for the part15 world. No, I do not agree with a lot of his methods, and yes, he takes things too seriously and reacts too extremely, and those reactions makes things worse than it has to be, and sometimes causes more problems than they solve... and for a brief time I began to get the impression that he was realizing this himself, and he had even recently made mention within the member sections of the forum that he was thinking about removing the lock downs and open the forums back up.. This was before the explosion of personal attacks in recent weeks arose again -- I now am beginning to realize that I may have actually caused this by trying to defend him... I wasn't trying to stir the pot, I was actually trying to smooth things..

All I know is that it's all a real sad shame, but I guess that's just the way the world is.

Bill has actually posted both of those comments multiple times - not that I've seen since you've come back to HB, but you were gone for a while, and it's certainly been within the past year or so. And remember, I'm blocked and it's just far too inconvenient to attempt to see what's going on over there compared to what I get out of it. But enough said about that. My only point was that we all have our issues and biases, make mistakes and view the world the way we want to.

Now, I'm confused as to what you're referring to when you say the insults have started again. I'm not so sure that they ever completely left! But hear me out.

It would be easy to say that Bill has brought it on himself, and in some cases he has. I know there are several people that he has crossed paths with (and that ended badly) who will never change their minds about him, in exactly the same way that he will likely never change his mind about them. But his subsequent public reactions, which certainly could be seen as over-reactions, get viewed by all. They add more fuel to the fire to others who may not know the history, but know what they see (such as hidden links, IP shenanigans, etc.).

It would also be easy to say that those who feel that they have been slighted by Bill should get a life, and get over it.  It's in the past.  Move forward.

If it were that easy, this wouldn't still be going on.  We're all human, with flaws and egos (sometimes too much or too little) and the path of least resistance is to remember the slights than to heal the wounds.

In addition to that, should the words of a few (however right or wrong they might be perceived to be) invalidate an entire Forum such as Part15.us? There have been some pretty devastating insults over time that have come back the other way from HB (however deserved it was felt they might be by them) to participants in Part15.us (some of whom are also here). Should that invalidate HB?

This entire situation is in a downwards spiral, and its going to take some effort on everyone's behalf to stop it. If there are perceived problems on both sides, wouldn't it be better to talk it out?

The Part 15 world would be a much better place if that could happen.

[Afterthought: Words and people can be ignored. You're not going to please everyone. I know there are several individuals who probably feel the same way about me in my role as a Moderator as some do about Bill. All I can say is that, at the end of the day, you try to do your best, keep emotions out of things, admit to mistakes (which is probably the hardest part), try to learn from those mistakes, and keep a positive attitude (even though it's difficult on some days).]

thelegacy, that's actually one of the contexts in which the discussion of the FM boundary rule came up. I can't remember the exact details as to range, etc.

I think it's been established that 'iffy' legal situations have been discussed at multiple sites, even at HB. The trick is now to somehow mend the rifts that have been built up over the years to the benefit of everybody.