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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 11:19:58 GMT
Policy Talk
As The ALPB rises from the Maintenance Mode we are having very appropriate policy talks, and have opened a possible "door to peace" by acknowledging "the third forum", but consider this:
J.H. "Within 2 weeks I was no longer able to log in and that was before I had ever even posted on that site. I made a couple attempts to re-register and contact the forum owner but never received a response."
Because of this kind of experience had by who knows how many perhaps it would be in our best interest to simply blot out any recognition that a third forum exists, since, by its own actions, it only exists for a rare few.
Speaking only for myself, I will bring this point to our Meeting on March 3.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 12:24:45 GMT
And You Bring It Up Again Now
Jim Henry re-run: "A recent example was when I questioned how a public servant, a Congress woman, who never made more than $175,000/year in a 20 year career could have amassed a net worth of approximately $50 million."
Aside from this targeted suspicion directed at a black female Democrat, what would a low power hobby forum do about it? It's not mentioned in the Part 15 rules.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:25:07 GMT
Complexities and Controversies
Bob Felmly is a genius. This is only my opinion, but I think he spent 5+ years building the ALPB as far as he was able, then found an instant formula for allowing it to either become a self-sustaining entity or starve to death.
Fate was on our side because DavidC, now the Admin, was available and willing to take charge and already has done an Elon Musk SpaceX getting us on trajectory.
These talks we are having right now, preliminary to a powerful Meeting scheduled for March 3rd, gives every present and new member a voice in steering the rocket.
Now to this very important statement from Robert Part15 Engineer: "Carl if we have an audience with our stations and social media pages there is a lot we can do to sway public opinion on many political subjects and agendas. sure you will alienate some listeners and lose social media followers but in the long run there will be more people who will come in and replace those listeners and social media followers. we may be small but that doesn't mean we don't have just as powerful a platform as the big boys do."
That's a huge point. Our stations are voices and we have a tad of influence here in the world. That's why I have TWO talk stations with programs that take strong and definite points of view on human life and the world. It is also why I have recently been making noise about what I see as a disappointment... MOST of the low power stations are music only. Well, that's a tricky sticky thing...
Being able to program personal music is one of the big draws of low power radio... it's why most people want to do it in the beginning.
But as we grow personally as individuals and begin thinking about "serving the community", which we hear all the time, it takes TALK!
Doesn't matter what your point of view is or what you believe, the radio station is a place to AMPLIFY your speech!
And becoming a better spokesman for whatever cause is one of the skills the ALPB is in a position to learn and teach!
Holy hell, I'm preaching now, but we absolutely need to tame this monster of proper speech versus banned speech. Often the people who get all bent out of shape are simply misunderstanding, sometimes on purpose, what is being discussed.
At this early stage of things, according to the fine print of what the Admin has said, he suggests we limit political speech for the time being, while we re-organize. Therefore he's saying it's an issue we can tackle when we're farther into it. That's excellent!
Stand by Robert! We'll pick the locks if we have to so that adults can talk to adults in the ALPB of Tomorrow!
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Post by Admin on Feb 23, 2018 15:36:55 GMT
Unfortunately, the evolution of this thread demonstrates why, at least right now, we should not allow any political discussion into the Forum.
It generally doesn't have anything to do with radio and radio broadcasting, other than the FCC.
Most people view political discussion through the lens of their own views and opinions. What may be to some a statement of fact may to another be a personal attack, particularly if that statement attacks their opinion, or someone they agree with, or a political position they support.
Substitute the President (who has declared bankruptcy multiple times) for that Congress Woman mentioned previously, and the statement suddenly becomes an disrespectful, personal attack for some.
Rather than argue who is right or who is wrong, and allow the discussion to inevitably descend into name calling and bad feelings, it's better to eliminate such discussion at all. At least until it can be handled.
Now I have to go back and spend time & energy to moderate some posts that are supposed to be ultimately about moderation, without losing the gist of the (hopefully) on topic point attempting to be made.
Edit: Unfortunately, a few posts were totally off the topic of Forum Content, and couldn't be saved.
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Post by Admin on Feb 23, 2018 17:59:01 GMT
A couple of thoughts to throw out.
The Forum, rather than the meetings, has become the de facto focus of the ALPB. Perhaps we can find ways to merge the two, giving those who choose to participate in the Forum only a way to vote. Perhaps making the audio of the meetings more accessible via the Forum. And giving Forum only members are way to vote (by proxy).
Every Forum has a 'feeling', for lack of a better term. It's usually based in part on the membership, but primarily on how the Forum is run, the content allowed, etc.
The two (and yes, we have to acknowledge there are two) other major Forums each have their own unique feel. One, Hobbybroadcaster, is essentially driven by the Owner/Founder/Moderator, who sets the rules and drives most of the content. It's essentially a one person project.
The other, Part15.us, is more open, with the owner not participating at all. Moderation is generally by committee, and is generally more lax than Hobbybroadcaster, but still restrictive as to on topic posts, ad hominem attacks, etc. The site is the result of work of many people.
Both Forums tend to focus on the technical aspects of radio and broadcasting (i.e., legal aspects, equipment (such as transmitters, antennas, etc.) and sound quality). Both Forums are well populated by experienced broadcasters, engineers and computer experts. Each strives to bring newcomers into low power broadcasting.
What we are essentially discussing in this thread is not only what we should be about, but also what the 'feel' of the ALPB Forum should be. The ALPB is different than the other two in makeup - it consists of primarily existing low power broadcasters. It was formed to help each other out with Programming and Content - the other two Forums do a good job at bringing newcomers into the field, and helping out with the technical aspects, particularly for newcomers.
My thoughts are that we should strive to achieve the goal that every existing, established low power broadcaster join the ALPB, in addition to one of the other Forums. The other Forum you choose based on the 'feel' you are most comfortable with. We, however, should be the go to place to retrieve information about Programming that is readily available to these broadcasters, including the actual Programming itself (where applicable).
I also believe that as to 'feel', we should retain the Forum structure that we now have. One section devoted to non members, which can serve as a vehicle to show what we're about, and to draw people into signing up. And the rest, for members only. Membership should not be restricted in any sense, but it should be made very clear that we are oriented towards existing broadcasters.
I enjoy the lax feeling and banter that sometimes occurs in thi Forum, and that does not occur or is actively discouraged on the others. I think there is a time and place for that. After all, it has been noted that Programming is social in nature.
However, for reasons previously stated, I believe that we have to severely restrict political comments. Ad hominem attacks are not and should not ever be allowed. I have my own opinions as to the suitability of the other Forums, but in future I'm going to show those feelings by where I participate. Let's rise above petty name calling, even if it continues to be engaged in elsewhere.
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Post by mark on Feb 23, 2018 17:59:35 GMT
Carl touches on the value of talk programming besides music but guess what.....in Canada all political or religious talk or opinion on license free broadcasting BETS-1 including rebroadcasting of anything can't be done! Part 15 has no restrictions on this. I couldn't do talk unless it was subjects like car repairing or generic things like that. Even talk about news events couldn't go because all news leads to politics. We don't have freedom of speech on the radio....unless you are a licensed station.
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Post by part15engineer on Feb 23, 2018 18:23:14 GMT
my political comments (which were removed) were simply a response to Jim Henry's two political leaning post(s) on page one (which was not removed) no worries (or hard feelings) though, I can go repeat the comments over at my forums and quote JH over there :-) mainly referring to the comment about the millionaire senator on the last post on page one by JH.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 18:48:48 GMT
Open Door Policy
The Admin is thinking along the right lines to give the ALPB its own distinct personality in concert and harmony with the other low power sites.
Mark reminds us that the ALPB is open to international membership, requiring sensitivity to allowances in other parts of the world. Mark said: "Carl touches on the value of talk programming besides music but guess what.....in Canada all political or religious talk or opinion on license free broadcasting BETS-1 including rebroadcasting of anything can't be done! Part 15 has no restrictions on this."
Generic programming can be very attractive to an audience. For example, KDX has been looking for good food shows and health programs.
The food shows we've found so far have tended to be "uppity" and pretentious, with gentrified specialty dishes that require virtual chefs with million-dollar kitchens to accomplish.
For awhile we carried a Naturopathic show hosted by two naturopathic doctors which I still like, but then I learned that so-called "naturopathic" medicine is more of an alternative-medicine thing more into psuedo-science than actual science.
And I'd bet that Canada is perplexed by certain comedy routines for example re-runs of Bob and Ray (a U.S. show) which spoof generic politicians in a light-hearted way.
I get the idea that Canada is stumbling around the same as part 15 forums when it comes to judgement calls.
It would be good to carry this open-door policy forward as S.O.P. (Standard Operating Procedure) so we can analyze ourselves as we go along.
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Post by Admin on Feb 23, 2018 18:49:40 GMT
Jim Henry was basically stating his comment was removed and that he didn't agree with that action; yet was complaining that the President was being personally attacked. I left his comment, because I wanted to demonstrate in my post that by removing that Congress Woman, and substituting The President, his post would become what he would consider a personal attack.
THAT is the reason why political comments should be off limits. Their 'rightness', if you will, tends to be in the eye of the beholder, and the lens through which you view them. They should have no place in a Forum dedicated to radio and radio broadcasting, and radio programming.
Comments regarding the FCC are somewhat on topic, particularly surrounding programming; they have to be considered very carefully before making them, and they will also be looked at very carefully by the Moderators.
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Post by mark on Feb 23, 2018 21:49:40 GMT
Here's the thing, The FCC enters a lot of discussion because we all(except me and Davidc and one New Zealand member), have to abide by their rules whether an unlicensed hobby station or a licensed one. The FCC is an arm of the government and is answerable to congress which can actually make the rules the FCC governs. So, how can the FCC come into discussion without political overtones. The FCC is political.
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Post by Boomer on Feb 24, 2018 2:55:28 GMT
My station is primarily music radio, it's part of my life and something I always listened to, and DJed later on. I think it can be informative, when someone talks about the bands being played and their history, or the station brings in a concert, that makes it part of a larger event and real life social gathering, and it makes memories. That seems like a narrow focus, but I can't deny it was vital for several generations of radio listeners.
Music radio probably deserves the disdain it gets these days though, people say it's bland, celebrity driven, neutered by national networks, and it seems at the local level no one cares about the music that's being played, not like the times when program directors were competing with other stations on music to capture the most listeners.
Part of me thinks, why focus on music, when much of the music industry is corporate and designed to sell itself as a product. On the other side, there are few music stations on AM radio, so my station provides a service, even if it's mostly a jukebox. I feel like I'd rather have something on the air, it's better than nothing. I run a few shows on it, science shows, a soul show, heavy metal, and The Third Shift, which is a show for dudes.
I'm invested in all that, as well as equipping my station with AM stereo for a better experience listening to album rock and other stereo music. An idea would be to have a second station that would be a talk outlet. That could even be handled on a little mp3 player, a standalone box that you plug a thumb USB drive in, power it up and it just starts playing, and that way you don't have to set up a second PC or studio feed, just throw IDs and talk shows in.
Boomer
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 3:10:09 GMT
Don't Always Listen to What Others Say
Boomer says: "I think it (music radio)can be informative, when someone talks about the bands being played and their history, or the station brings in a concert, that makes it part of a larger event and real life social gathering, and it makes memories."
And this subject came up (I think) because I bashed music radio earlier in my pompous way. But ignore me!
Like many outspoken types I often pour it on a bit too strong.
My whole background was driven by two different music loves...
From an early age I drove program directors nuts by pushing classical music and they didn't want to go broke so they asked me to button it up.
Then when rock and roll entered the scene I admired the DJ style so much I started auditioning for those jobs and the first one I got was country music DJ from 9 to Noon weekdays and it was a blast!
Deep somewhere in the mind I wanted to sit there and just talk but I had no clue what to talk about. It took 40 years to think of a few topics and here I am acting like some talk show expert.
You know, maybe I'm resentful because I can't do music radio because of the royalty problem. That's something I can talk about.
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Feb 24, 2018 5:51:52 GMT
My station is primarily music radio, it's part of my life and something I always listened to, and DJed later on. I think it can be informative, when someone talks about the bands being played and their history, or the station brings in a concert, that makes it part of a larger event and real life social gathering, and it makes memories. That seems like a narrow focus, but I can't deny it was vital for several generations of radio listeners. Music radio probably deserves the disdain it gets these days though, people say it's bland, celebrity driven, neutered by national networks, and it seems at the local level no one cares about the music that's being played, not like the times when program directors were competing with other stations on music to capture the most listeners. Part of me thinks, why focus on music, when much of the music industry is corporate and designed to sell itself as a product. On the other side, there are few music stations on AM radio, so my station provides a service, even if it's mostly a jukebox. I feel like I'd rather have something on the air, it's better than nothing. I run a few shows on it, science shows, a soul show, heavy metal, and The Third Shift, which is a show for dudes. I'm invested in all that, as well as equipping my station with AM stereo for a better experience listening to album rock and other stereo music. An idea would be to have a second station that would be a talk outlet. That could even be handled on a little mp3 player, a standalone box that you plug a thumb USB drive in, power it up and it just starts playing, and that way you don't have to set up a second PC or studio feed, just throw IDs and talk shows in. Boomer The Procaster will do that nicely!
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Feb 24, 2018 6:05:37 GMT
Unfortunately, the evolution of this thread demonstrates why, at least right now, we should not allow any political discussion into the Forum. It generally doesn't have anything to do with radio and radio broadcasting, other than the FCC. Most people view political discussion through the lens of their own views and opinions. What may be to some a statement of fact may to another be a personal attack, particularly if that statement attacks their opinion, or someone they agree with, or a political position they support. Substitute the President (who has declared bankruptcy multiple times) for that Congress Woman mentioned previously, and the statement suddenly becomes an disrespectful, personal attack for some. Rather than argue who is right or who is wrong, and allow the discussion to inevitably descend into name calling and bad feelings, it's better to eliminate such discussion at all. At least until it can be handled. Now I have to go back and spend time & energy to moderate some posts that are supposed to be ultimately about moderation, without losing the gist of the (hopefully) on topic point attempting to be made. Edit: Unfortunately, a few posts were totally off the topic of Forum Content, and couldn't be saved. Davidc, I agree, and remember that bankruptcy, at least in the U.S., is a completely legal process having nothing to do with Part 15, the best I know. Also, bankruptcy is a far better alternative to its predecessor, debtors' prison.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 6:16:06 GMT
Time to Correct Your Record
Jim Henry keeps saying: "Why would attacks on our President, his wife or his daughter, also have anything to do with Part 15 broadcasting?"
As you've already been told, there have been no "attacks" on anyone from this forum. There have definitely been just criticisms. Please refrain from incendiary hyperbole.
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