Posted over at my forums - FCC LPAM Petition

Nope. No Regulations.

Keeping interference in mind a 5 Watt FM signal and different types of radios I do know that a 5 Watt transmitter FM transmitting on 87.7 MHz will only interfere with the radio about 10 to 20 feet if it's a decent radio like a Grundig 450 DLX. However some of the cheaper boomboxes like the Sony one that I have picks up bleed for about 40-50 feet away.

That being said if I could get the antenna above 8 feet off the ground I'm sure the interference would be far less. One would have to do some experimentation and work to see if we could come up with a reasonable amount of power so we get a 1 to 2 mile range. I'm sure the higher the antenna the less power that you would need for example 12 foot up with a signal of half of that power.

I do remember CB radio and even at 5 Watts it would come in on many amplifiers because of the IF frequency of the amplifier. For some reason on my stereo system it would come right in on the power amp section and you could not turn that down which means you would come blasting in on the amplifier section. This could blow speakers out (Not Cool).

Again I'm not blaming the entire problem on the radio itself but true that the hobbyist must make sure that they are operating at a reasonable amount of power and not overdoing it in a potential neighborhood. This is why the power level should be varied from zero to legal. I do agree with a lot of what Artisan Radio said too and I don't think the hobby operator should remain blameless for some of this.

If more power is allowed I think that education would be the key. I don't think it would take too much to get people to understand that certain power levels are way too much in certain situations. It would take people to understand that they need to experiment and they need to check with their neighbors when they're on the air to make sure that reception has not diminished on their TVs or radio receivers.

I do like the specifications of say a Veronica FM transmitter over some of the other transmitters I have seen. They make sure that they are not generating all sorts of filth and harmonics that could cause issues. If more manufacturers would take this in to consideration I think a lot of our problems would be solved as well. Were hoping that with this new service the NRR will propose will confront some of this issues.

I know it doesn't sound like it but the New Radio Revolution is taking in consideration the interference issues and the concerns that people should have. This is something that dwells on my mind as well because I do know that a 5 Watt FM transmitter for example can overdrive in certain situations. At 1 Watt however it's not quite is drastic.

I'm not going to say who but I will say that the Signstek CZE-T200 at its full power level of 200 mW will do almost 2 miles. Again this is from a higher story structure and with the small rubber duck antenna that comes with it. We really need more time for testing with various outside antennas at more reasonable power levels to get the distance without the blanket effect to radio's.

With that in mind the Whole House FM transmitter 3.0 at the high-power setting with the lightning bolt on did quite well and a1 mile range at the ground floor with the wire antenna connected with the roach clip to the terminal of that transmitter. I was quite impressed and wondered what would happen if I were to set up a waterproof case for the transmitter and raise it to 20-30 feet. Could I reach the Deltiville market?

This again is another reason it's taking so long with the petition because once we submit it with the correct power levels we want to be doing it once and done. This means knowing exactly how much power it takes to get the range that we want minus the interference that people do not want. That is our goal and this is why it's taking so long. I don't have the money for a Veronica transmitter to go from 0-amount it takes to reach 1 1/4 miles in Stereo FM to a Tecsun PL 880 or Grundig 450 DLX or car Radio since we're trying to get folks who are traveling about in a small town to be able to hear us.

We have noticed however that 87.7 MHz at lower power levels seems to do approximately the same range on say 100.1 FM with much higher power. This is a good thing because it does show that the white space frequencies that we are proposing would work quite well for hobby broadcasting at lower and more friendly power levels.

NEC software alone to our opinion just does not cut it. Real-world testing is the only way to actually know firsthand what certain power levels will do at certain heights with certain receivers. This is the only way to ask for the correct power and do it one time and be done with it.

I know it's frustrating that we did not get the petition out as quickly as I would really like to get it out. But unfortunately money and life does play a part as to why things are not done as quickly as possible. I have much would like to have that Veronica transmitter so that I can use variable amounts of power to achieve the Real-World testing. Donations could help however.

In the meantime you people really need to think twice about this petition and make sure it does not pass. And we can go forward and get something done that will help everyone and not hurt certain people that are already in this hobby and who have invested quite a bit of money into it. I know that once people let it sink in they'll understand some of the things that our group is trying to say and we do give it straight to you. We do have some unfriendly things posted on our site because of some more infair game play by some.

I will let it be known that someone signed in as a guest using the same cable company as a certain member of our group and they actually tried to make it look like that member was turning against us. But they got the city wrong and they're not the only ones who knows how to spoof an IP address. I knew how to do this a long time ago so I'll say this is very old and out dated hacking on their part. Not only this but it is a trick one in school may try to play.

If you really want to know what some of us might know look up phone phreaking spelt with a pH also look up The Legion Of Doom, Masters Of Deception LOD,MOD,CCCP and other things such as the 2600 magazine. The phone company didn't just give you unlimited flat rate long distance calling out of the kindness of their little old heart. They Had To their billing system was hacked and compromised. And they said an ANI jammer was impossible. Look up the 2600 Hz wistle and captain crunch and see how that happened. Plus Red boxing to fake a quarter being inserted into a payphone. Yes FREE Calling was what some of our members knew. Be careful when you try and hack our site cuz it could backfire is our point here.

This type of gameplay does prove that not all part 15 operators or so they call themselves are actually legal eagles that they claim to be. Instead they to go above board hacking websites and causing trouble for certain groups. So that too needs to quit and I am willing to bet that it's part of a member of the NAB doing it.

It is hard for some to believe but our group is actually trying to help everyone. I know that some of the things that we say are hard to digest but at the same time we have done quite a bit of research and we do know some things to be the case in point. All were asking is for less gameplay against our group. Then we can get more accomplished and get it done a lot faster.

Carl, that's the beauty of the white space frequency and device approach. Built into the devices are geo-locators that are used to determine power levels, based on location, proximity to licensed stations, etc. I figure if it's good enough for an unlicensed, wireless microphone (which is what these devices are primarily intended for), it should be good enough for unlicensed community broadcasters. And unlicensed wireless microphones on white space frequencies are allowed (at least in the draft of the specs that I saw) up to 1/2 watt output power - that should be more than enough to cover a community.

TheLegacy, NEC software modelling is acceptable to the FCC in lieu of actual measurements for LICENSED stations (most licensed stations do not even purchase their equipment until they obtain their license). While it might seem like voodoo to some who don't understand how it works, it can be an accurate representation (with accurate input data) of best-case scenarios for broadcast transmitters, Part 15 or otherwise. Plus, you don't have to answer any embarrassing questions after the fact about how you managed to measure the range of a blatantly illegal 1 watt transmitter.

I also suspect that experimentation results obtained and narrated in any proposal will be double checked, if not by the FCC, then by others, using NEC.

(1) Let me say this about that...



Back in the day, I had a 100mw FM transmitter when I first bought my Comet 95 SL 5/8ths wavelength co-linear antenna. At 30 feet up, I got a mile and a half. A tenth of a watt! This Signstek is twice that. 1/5th of a watt. We did a drive around. It does not go two miles set up in the front room. I got it all the way up on the tripod. It's near the ceiling.



Set up THAT WAY, I get a clean half mile in all directions. Beyond that it's spotty. But...imagine it OUTDOORS, up...I dunno, 20 feet or so...Yeah. TWO miles easily.


(2) I will say this. I do not play games like that. Were this a business, or an important node of a network, I would unleash the full fury of people you DON'T want to even NOTICE you! This is just a hobby. I have MUCH better things to do than deal with this infantile inanity...


Doug

Is that 85 watts TPO or ERP?

Just to be clear, the Signstek CZE-T200 has four power settings. The lowest one (10 mW) Covers my building (a fourplex). I am very happy with it at that level and it sounds GOOD in every apartment! We did the test, am I am satisfied with that.

OK, back to the topic...the LPAM Petition.



Doug