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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 19:11:21 GMT
A thread of transmitting music on CB frequencies has disappeared over at Part15.us. While I understand why it was removed (people were talking about broadcasting music using readily available 5 watt CB transceivers, which is illegal), it is also useful to note that Part 15 operation IS allowed in the CB band. The Part15.209 rules allow a field strength of 30uv/m at 30 meters. That might get you 100 feet or so of range on a good AM home receiver, and 200+ feet on a good car radio. And there is no restriction as to content, you can indeed broadcast music (albeit not in the way that the thread intended).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 21:08:43 GMT
CB for Plain Voice Only
I also followed the "music on CB" topic at part15_us and took note of the fact that I didn't see anyone bother to check the actual rules.
CB Rules start at 95.401.
It is 95.413 that talks about music:
CB Rule # 13 (a) (6) You must not use a CB station to transmit music, whistling, sound effects or any material to amuse or entertain.
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Post by End80 on Feb 16, 2017 22:49:32 GMT
I had actually looked it up the other night, even though it's basically common knowledge to most anyone who even vaguely knows the first thing about using a cb. Besides what Carl points out, (b) also specifies that content from cb can't be aired on a broadcast radio station in any form, so I'm puzzled about what David means by it can be picked up on any home receiver or in a car.. I assume he means a cb receiver. 95.413 makes no mention of any exceptions, so I'll take your word that some of those frequencies specified in 15.209 do refer to cb..
But now there appears to be an apparent conflict of rules between 15.209 and 95.413, as they are incompatible with each other. One specifies you can not under any circumstances air music, while the other riles indicates you can.. hmmm.. While I was vaguely aware cb broadcasting was allowable under part 15, as with toy talkie talkies and such, even my plastic toy 'base station' cb I had had as a kid came with a set of instructions which specified that I could not play music on it.
But the bottom line of it all is that the general gist of the entire gist of the thread was promotion of unlawful broadcasting and it was being further built upon. Out of curiosity I had looked at some of the past entries of the poster pushing it, and noted that he is the owner of two different pirating forums.. Which is fine with me, more power to him and his members, but I sincerely think it detrimental to allow part 15 and pirates to be associated as part of the same group.
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Post by mark on Feb 16, 2017 23:46:15 GMT
I always thought that CB was strictly for communication(voice) for talk between truckers for example and for emergency use. So David is saying if you cut the power you can play music? Not that I care but don't all CB transcievers come in one power...the 4 watts max allowed? And anyone can just intercept your music....breaker breaker.... Remember the ones Radioshack sold and they were just the one power...either 2 watts or four watt models.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 0:36:47 GMT
Double Use of Some Bands
Many portions of the radio spectrum are licensed for several different kinds of use.
Perfect example is the AM band.
Commercially licensed stations use the AM band under a particular section of FCC Rules.
Another section of FCC Rules specified Traffic Information Stations which also utilize the AM band.
Yet another section of the rules describe two different types of part 15 AM stations... intentional radiators and carrier current.
The section of the rules that specify the CB Band do not make those frequencies exclusive to CB alone.
15.209 describes a major sized spectrum from 1710 kHz all the way up to (I believe) 30 mHz, but there are exceptions within those frequencies... take for example international licensed shortwave and several amateur bands.
Someone who is intent to play music within the CB band of frequencies can't do it at the 4-Watts rated for CB, but can legally do it at the much lower power of 15.209.
But here's something better...
Check-out 15.227 Operation within the band 26.96 - 27.28 MHz (a) The field strength of any emission within this band shall not exceed 10,000 microvolts/meter at 3 meters. You'll be able to pick it up on some CB channels but it's not technically CB.
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Post by End80 on Feb 17, 2017 1:45:11 GMT
I always thought that CB was strictly for communication(voice) for talk between truckers for example and for emergency use. So David is saying if you cut the power you can play music? Not that I care but don't all CB transcievers come in one power...the 4 watts max allowed? And anyone can just intercept your music....breaker breaker.... Remember the ones Radioshack sold and they were just the one power...either 2 watts or four watt models. Mark CB is strictly for voice communication, what I think what David is pointing out is for example, many walkie talkies (most commonly toys) which operates in the cb band is governed under part 15.209, and since part 15 has no limitations imposed on what kind of material you can broadcast, then that does give you the right to play music under those specifications in those rules. But that is a far cry from transmitting music on regular CB transmitters which are governed under 95.143
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Post by thelegacy on Feb 17, 2017 1:59:57 GMT
Channel 14 is part of that part 15 band. And just in case anyone wants to know you can be heard anywhere between a quarter of a mile to a mile away I'm just a part 15 walkie-talkie that was made back in the seventies.
I forgot who the original poster was of that Forum but I'm interested to know what forums he did own that were so-called pirate. Maybe somebody could private message me and let me know on that one.
I really don't condone transmitting music on CB even at part 15. It does cause issues with other CBers who may want to use that channel. It was an experiment that I did do as a kid on Channel 14 with a part 15 base station. The sound was pretty good and I was amazed at how it did sound.
I did mention that they're we're legally licensed STL's transmitting at around 25 megahertz did so using FM. The sound was phenomenal which proves that if the medium wave broadcast band would abolish amplitude modulation and instead go to FM all your troubles would be over and AM well should we say medium wave would be usable.
What the FCC should do is make it mandatory that all new radios can receive FM modulation as well as amplitude modulation on the frequencies of 520 to 1710 khz. After a few years have gone by simply abolish amplitude modulation and go to the narrow band FM format. This would allow the same number of stations to be on the dial but instead of noisy amplitude modulation you would have a crisp clean FM modulated signal noise free and again much more pleasant.
Another reason I talked about those radios that transmitted FM was because even simple voice sounded much better on FM then am CB. This is why many folks below Channel 1 used FM instead of AM and let me just say it sounded phenomenal. Why cb used AM is beyond me but FM should have been the modulated carrier for citizens band radio.
As far as people saying that 4 watts can not go very far I say bunk to that too because I did some great DX work using 4 Watts and with a good antenna. I even was able to talk to a person in Paris France using just 4 Watts but with a good beam antenna. I kept hearing you can't do that without a linear amplifier. Well I proved that wrong because the person in Paris France was able to hear my signal quite nicely and without no Linear Amplifier connected to the radio.
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Post by End80 on Feb 17, 2017 2:26:18 GMT
Don't know why AM was chosen for CB, but guess it had something to do with the same reasons that most broadcast stations were primary AM until the later 70's when FM started becoming predominate.
As for what pirate forums he runs, I had found it by clicking on his name and browsing his past post.. he evidently a long term member but hasn't posted often, but if you read his very first post he provides links to both his forums. I'd provide a link to that post, but I forget what his name was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 2:45:51 GMT
Carl explains what I was getting at very clearly. Part15.209 allows for anything to be broadcast at a very low field strength. It also appears that 15.227 provides for a lot more field strength.
I was also obviously getting AM Broadcast and CB receivers mixed up. The AM sensitivity of most CB receivers is pretty good, so you should be able to get a couple of hundred feet range even at the Part15.209 field strength levels. For 15.227, that field strength level is approaching what can be achieved for Part15.219, so I would imagine that ranges would be similar (maybe up to a mile).
So, yes, music is not allowed with 95.413, but there are no content restrictions for 15.227 or 15.209. So with lowered field strength emissions, you can indeed broadcast music on (some) CB frequencies.
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Post by End80 on Feb 17, 2017 3:37:17 GMT
15.227 may be able to approach what 15.219, but it's doesn't appear to be CB..
And there's still the question of which rule takes precedence in such situations as neither makes mentions of any exceptions..
-- I mean which takes precedence between 15.209 and 95.413 in relation to music on CB, usually exceptions to the rule are specified, but in this case nothing is mentioned either way.
But really the major point is that saying it's legally permissible to broadcast music on CB is very misleading and can easily be misunderstood.
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Post by bluebucketradio on Feb 17, 2017 4:02:37 GMT
Years ago, Radio Shack sold a pager system "Realistic 49-710 8 Channel Digital Paging System PG-80" that boasts 7 watts and an indoor antenna with receivers (pagers) it operated on 27.255 channel 23 CB. It's range was advertised as 2 miles but since it accepted the usual PL-259 connector, the user could opt for an outdoor antenna such as a ground plane increasing it's coverage by up to 5 miles Also let's not forget, some channels are for RC use and are stuck between the traditional 40 channels. (RC remote control or radio control) Remote control channels 3A 26.995 MHz 7A 27.045 MHz 11A 27.095 MHz 15A 27.145 MHz 19A 27.195 MHz Link to WIKI CB Usage In The United StatesIn the far far away past, i had used export radio's and talked to stations far below the traditional 40 channels in FM mode as far away as Arizona and New Mexico with a quad beam antenna and a 20 watt radio. These days i run an unmodified Cobra 148 GTL in the house and a cheap Realistic TRC-479 in the jeep which also has not been modified. I also have a scanner with CB Emergency Channel 9 programmed as I live close to Hal Rogers Parkway, with the use of cell phones these day's , Channel 9 is hardly ever used. 911 has taken it's place. Single Sideband is my favorite mode but lately conditions have not been ideal so i stay on AM on channel 20. I will probably pay the $70 and get a GMRS license, i have walkie talkies that work on FRS/GMRS and would probably use GMRS during storm spotting this Spring/Summer. I don't know what become of the rule, but wasn't their a rule that governed 26.96 to 27.28 that allowed 25 watts? Or is that the rule MRAM was quoting above? Could be my memory is faulty on that one. Long live 11 meters. P.S. 49 Mhz is another band we can play with at 100 mW.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 4:50:12 GMT
End80, all I said was that under Part 15.209, you are allowed to play music on the CB frequencies with a given field strength. That is entirely true.
Carl found 15.227, under which you can also play music, with yet another field strength.
There really is no precedence to these rules. It's similar to Part15.209 and Part15.219 for the AM broadcast band. If you are compliant with one, you are compliant, period.
Obviously, a commonly available 4 watt transceiver will greatly exceed the field strength limits of either of these 2 Part 15 sections.
I'm not sure I understand the problem here. People who engage in Part 15 broadcasting will understand the differences. And for an endeavor that goes to great lengths arguing about the lengths of ground leads and their legality, this is pretty simple, straightforward stuff.
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Post by thelegacy on Feb 17, 2017 6:21:37 GMT
49 Mhz at 100mW can be received for a mile ( sometimes further depending on your receiving antenna).
On my police scanner I could receive cordless phones for around two miles and that was with the antenna in the Attic.
As far as content rules for 49 megahertz I don't believe there are any. One could transmit music in that band.
Getting listeners however would be a little bit of a challenge unless you have neighbors that have scanners and like to play around. That being said you could start a station and get a few miles but your listeners would be very minimal.
What would be really nice is if they would actually consider the 46 megahertz band that was used on the cordless phone bases. That way they could expand an FM band and give the hobbyist some frequencies that would be something that is more feasible.
Don't forget about shortwave 13.560 megahertz is something to consider as well. I'm not sure what the range would actually be since I've never had a transmitter and done any experimental Transmissions down there.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Feb 17, 2017 13:16:23 GMT
CB for Plain Voice OnlyI also followed the "music on CB" topic at part15_us and took note of the fact that I didn't see anyone bother to check the actual rules. CB Rules start at 95.401. It is 95.413 that talks about music: CB Rule # 13 (a) (6) You must not use a CB station to transmit music, whistling, sound effects or any material to amuse or entertain. I resemble that remark. I was the only one who mentioned that transmitting music was inconsistent with the rules.
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Post by mighty1650 on Feb 17, 2017 14:17:00 GMT
I did mention that they're we're legally licensed STL's transmitting at around 25 megahertz did so using FM. The sound was phenomenal which proves that if the medium wave broadcast band would abolish amplitude modulation and instead go to FM all your troubles would be over and AM well should we say medium wave would be usable. There are actually still several 25 mhz "STLs" in operation in Texas. 25mhz was more intended for RPU use, much like the marti units that came out several years after 25mhz began seeing use. While FM does battle the noise a bit better, it also takes up a LOT more bandwidth than AM and requires a higher SNR than AM making it not very attractive to use in the medium wave band. Narrow FM might work but the fidelity wouldn't be as good nor do I think stereo would be possible.
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