mram1500
Junior Member
No Jab -Just Fact
Posts: 67
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Post by mram1500 on Feb 21, 2019 7:33:09 GMT
All of the resources to create and run The ALPB were provided by myself. The procurement of the domain name, a sustainable TeamSpeak server, the ALPB website, the ALPB forum were all obtained and developed by myself. I was responsible for maintaining all.
The membership discussed what we needed and I made it happen. The only piece donated was server space for the website. This was graciously provided by then Part15.us, now Part15.org.
The website gave The ALPB visibilty and a way to link resources to all hobby broadcasters. It brought in new members for a while and then leveled off.
Later the forum was developed. Membership in The ALPB was extended to anyone joining the forum. This was problematic. Virtually none of the new forum members participated to further the original goals of The ALPB. They simply wanted a forum, a place to express their opinions. When you have many personalities confronting each other, problems occur.
Certain members violated forum policy. They made slanderous remarks about the U.S. government. They ridiculed other members and political figures. They posted political rants. All of these things in the name of The ALPB.
I grew weary of all the infighting and personal responsibility since legally, my name was on everything...
I felt some how responsible for things going down hill. I started bringing up at meetings my desire to step down as Chairman. My numerous requests were dismissed with patronizing remarks in an attempt to convince me to stay. After all, members only had to show up for conversation.
After a few months I had to slap them in the face to get their attention. The forum and its quagmire was shut down. The website, parked. It was only then that I was taken seriously. A volunteer stepped up and everything resumed including the slander, political rants and infighting.
A new Chairman was elected. I complained about these forum problems and the Chair posted his policies which were ignored. When I went vocal and confronted these problems, I was locked out of the forum by the very moderator that was violating policy by the nature of their posts.
The gloves came off and I went direct to the members. I was accused of violating Proboards (forum providers) ethics by emailing ALPB members to inform them of the abuses. The complaint was I had obtained contact information from the forum records which was incorrect. I had personal contact with all members of the original ALPB organization as they all contacted me to join.
The Chairman was petitioned by the offended moderator regarding my actions. The Chairman was not able to substantiate any of the moderators claims of inflammatory posts by me as the moderator had removed the threads to protect their self.
The Chairman's investigation showed no wrong doing by me and I was reinstated. Subsequently the Chairman passed away unbeknownst to any of us. Two months passed with no response from him. Core member Neil and myself determined his passing which left The ALPB in disarray. The domain name, turned over to the Chairman, was to expire. The forum had virtually no owner as he was given my Admin rights.
Since I was the original owner of the domain name and the forum, both agreed ownership should return to me.
Repeated attempts to bring the core members back together failed and forum members were only interested in the forum platform. A handful of forum members expressed sorrow of the Chairman's passing. None responded to meeting requests to discuss the direction of The ALPB.
The original idea and group of The ALPB was in limbo. Given the forum was the demise of the original idea, I decided it was time to split the two. The forum is fine on its own and The ALPB can remain an idea to rebirth at some future time.
These are the facts. You will find the twisted facts at another forum. I am certain this information will be disputed and twisted to their satisfaction.
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Post by thelegacy on Feb 21, 2019 7:54:56 GMT
I tried to stick up for you Bob but they tried to discredit me whilst continuing with false info towards you. You should know me by now Bob I call a spade a spade I have no problem telling it like it is I have nothing to lose but then again I find a lot of it laughable in the first place.
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Post by End80 on Feb 21, 2019 14:27:42 GMT
Mram, I pretty much read the gripes posted on part15.org with a grain of salt and was neither concerned nor participated with the views about the matter expressed there.. From what I see the forum here seemed to have all but gone completely dormant and you taking action to attempt to restore it... I had been totally absent for several months and when I return discovered that apparently the site had gone through several changes of leadership and then everybody was gone. So I really have no opinion one way or the other concerning the expressed resentments being put forth, but am only interested in which way it is going now.
I've always liked this forum. I am now over-emphasizing policy #4 only because of what it seems to imply, and was pressing for clarification.
Legacy, I am not suggesting you can't achieve 1.5 to 2 miles with an legal unlicensed operation, I am only pointing out that generally over the last 50 years that every one the high profile part 15 AM stations have insured their continued operations by maintaining their range to be no more than about a mile (per transmitter). There has never been a practice or any indication of part 15 transmitters being installed on the dirt for the sake of compliancy, nor is this a practice now other than for a few hobbyist who made the decision to do so on their own in recent years.
This whole thing over the ground lead length has never - ever been an issue, and still is not today. The perception arose, quite frankly, solely due to the non-stop pressing of the matter by R Fry about ten years ago... which then led to correspond with the time frame on which KENC received his NOUOs, and it all fell together (though in reality it was all unrelated), and the hobby kind of fell into a tailspin for a while.
Now while R Fry had been technically correct about the ground lead issues all along, my research concludes that in spite of it, it is very clear that the length of the ground lead is not a genuine concern to the FCC and never what gets a part 15 station shut down - the lead is only the justification for a citation to be issued... But the only thing that leads to an AM part 15 to be shut down is -always- for ranges exceeding about a mile.
Now you can call that all opinion, but it is fact.
As for your buying up the AM bands... even if you had that kind of money, no one could ever legally own such a monopoly. What's more, even though AM radio popularity is declining (which is actually debatable), I seriously doubt it will be going away, it's still very much almost an necessity in the event of emergencies for mass communication when all else goes down... all the other more modern forms like cell phones, internet, digital broadcast, so forth and etc. are all dependent on other forms of technology. AM radio is not, it's self-reliant, during natural disasters or imposed emergencies occurs and all else goes down, AM is for the most part unaffected and has extended reach.. this is why it is the department of homeland security that maintains the AM TIS databases and not the FCC.. it is also the reason why they are even bothering to be putting forth efforts to save an outdated medium like AM stations at all, they want to insure the common use of AM remains in existence. |
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Rich
Full Member
RF Systems Engr (retired)
Posts: 112
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Post by Rich on Feb 21, 2019 14:47:29 GMT
... my research concludes that in spite of it, it is very clear that the length of the ground lead is not a genuine concern to the FCC and never what gets a part 15 station shut down - the lead is only the justification for a citation to be issued... But the only thing that leads to an AM part 15 to be shut down is -always- for ranges exceeding about a mile. Now you can call that all opinion, but it is fact. ... It is a fact (of physics) that a "long" conducting path attached to the r-f ground or chassis of an elevated Part 15 AM transmitter adds to the ~3-meter length of a whip antenna attached to that transmitter.
Other things equal, that increased radiating length produces greater coverage areas for that system than if the radiating length was limited to 3 meters.
So if it exists, a long ground lead can lead to an FCC citation. Very rarely has the FCC ever referred to received field strength or "range" when issuing an NOUO based on §15.219.
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Post by End80 on Feb 21, 2019 15:03:47 GMT
... my research concludes that in spite of it, it is very clear that the length of the ground lead is not a genuine concern to the FCC and never what gets a part 15 station shut down - the lead is only the justification for a citation to be issued... But the only thing that leads to an AM part 15 to be shut down is -always- for ranges exceeding about a mile. Now you can call that all opinion, but it is fact. ... It is a fact (of physics) that a "long" conducting path attached to the r-f ground or chassis of an elevated Part 15 AM transmitter adds to the ~3-meter length of a whip antenna attached to that transmitter.
Other things equal, that increased radiating length produces greater coverage areas for that system than if the radiating length was limited to 3 meters.
So if it exists, a long ground lead can lead to an FCC citation. Very rarely has the FCC ever referred to received field strength or "range" when issuing an NOUO based on §15.219.
I'll take this over to your originating post at alpb.boards.net/thread/2849/fcc-rules to get it out of this topic, since I've already took this threads subject off course. |
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Neil
New Member
Posts: 43 
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Post by Neil on Feb 21, 2019 20:10:00 GMT
Folks, you have been asked not to discuss rules. Doing so here also takes the thread way off topic and since there is another active thread about rules why repeat it here when more important things regarding this organization are pending.
Bob has posted here the "history" of the past year or so of the Forum in order to set the record straight regarding events. You may not know this but he was summarily banned from Part15.org last summer and all I can do is wonder why the recent thread concerning the ALPB "going away" which could have been hosted here rather than on Part15.org contained statements about him despite his inability to respond. He has done so here and what he has posted agrees with my recollection of what happened so please read his post again and pay attention.
Absent help from us he has decided to take actions to preserve what we have of the organization, the forum, and the TeamSpeak operation. The result so far is that the Forum is working and the TeamSpeak gatherings, despite erroneous information to the contrary, continue. I was present last Saturday and participated. I believe Bob is acting appropriately and agree with Rich Powers that we should be focused on which way it is going now.
Neil
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Post by Boomer on Feb 22, 2019 4:56:18 GMT
Oh Dr. Bob, lord love you, but I don't think you're going to win, we're going to drive you mad in the end!..  I'm one of those who came for the forum discussion and didn't really know much about the original ALPB organization or its mission. I knew it was a website and thought that people there decided to add a forum as an extra, just as many websites have a forum that reflects the interests of the main site and lets a site's followers talk. In a sense I was born into this forum as my perspective of what the ALPB is about. Around the time I was starting my station I was reading a lot at Part15-US, and Carl Blare was promoting the ALPB a good bit, as another site he posted to, and eventually I checked it out and liked what I saw: A newer, quieter forum that was building up and more upbeat, faster loading and a landscape presentation that looks nicer on my wider screen, so I joined. As for my remarks on forum policy about politics and regulatory issues, I see it as a place to read between the words for context. We're always dealing with politics in every situation, but the rule against political rants seems to be fair to me, because this is a specialist forum about low power hobby radio, not the best fit for mainstream political ranting. Regulatory issue articles seem to be of most interest to those who participate in them, but I find them to be so wordy, dense with information as well as loads of opinion, and are repetitive. Is anything solved by the arguing the fine points of regulations that we can't do much about? I see it as just jousting and it takes away writing talent from other topics that will help improve our stations and the health of the forums. I think people get strung out by the fighting and it's not so friendly to have it on the group. I read a few long regulatory threads back in the days and rather than be informed I felt stupefied afterwords. Then again, my icon is a Sheepdog, and Sheepdogs have the reputation for being a little woolly-headed to begin with, at least the Warner Brothers Sheepdogs do..  I'm not sure where the postings about radio pirates came from, I can only assume that there was a problem at some point, but I've never seen someone post about starting a pirate station here. When I saw the locked post on 'discussions of blatant piracy', it didn't seem too friendly to have that out in the open, and there for such a long time, feeling that readers could be intimidated, like they were going to be easily called out for their stations, or that it's easy to step into trouble with a Part-15 station or break the rule. Something to think about is that commercial radio has been seeing pirates as some kind of boogieman, and one of the things responsible for the ills of the radio industry. Maybe Part-15 sites and enthusiasts are picking up on some of that and making it our problem too. Boomer |
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Post by End80 on Feb 22, 2019 5:53:31 GMT
Well, apologies from me. I do get carried away sometimes and also forget my posting which is usually addressed at people I've dealt with over extended periods of time, I forget my post might be the first thing a newcomer sees when exploring the forum.. which would not reflect in a very positive way to a impress a newcomer. I really try to catch myself, but sometimes a comment arises which is like a match to a fuse, and I come back with a response that extends farther than it ever should have, and when it's done come away feeling like I had fell into a trap! Anyway, again, sorry for the negativity I contributed to some threads, but it's really not intended to be negative.
Something which had occurred to me.. The most successful part 15 station which I have ever known of has been going strong for 20 years now, I've probably read every article about them ever written, and something that repeatably stands out about the guy is that he was /is full of misconceptions about part 15, it's very evident if you read enough of the articles, yet in spite of that he has accomplished with it more than a good many of us put together. (I'm pretty sure I've posted a link to it before, but if not Radio Sausalito's history
If he had actually known what he was doing then his station would probably never became what it is. If he had been a member of any of the part 15 forums, I think it's much less likely his station would be a success now. Therefore it's better not to know.
With this in mind, how exactly do you approach the issues of legal matters in a legal unlicensed broadcasting forum?... You don't want to deter a stations success...
So, I guess that is why "post should not relate to legal issues"
But you don't want to condone misinformation either.
So what do you do?
(Excuse me, - I'm mostly just thinking aloud)
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Post by End80 on Feb 22, 2019 6:22:10 GMT
Something to think about is that commercial radio has been seeing pirates as some kind of boogieman, and one of the things responsible for the ills of the radio industry. Maybe Part-15 sites and enthusiasts are picking up on some of that and making it our problem too. Boomer The thing is Boomer that both the ALPB forum and the part15 forum have gone through periods of time when blatant piracy methods and discussions had infiltrated and temporarily continued to flourish, and seemly began to seem accepted.. in that an immediate stop was not put to it.
The distinction should be maintained if the forum focus is legal broadcasting. No?
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Post by thelegacy on Feb 22, 2019 7:51:25 GMT
Sometimes under certain situations what can be legal in one country might not be legal in another country. And if you are talking about a possible change in rules then talking about the possibility if when it becomes appropriate when were to transmit under a certain condition should be discussed.
I'm not saying that one should constantly discuss methods of piracy. Even on the initiative Elite board there is some discussion of it but that to has dwindled because most people talk about what is legal to do. There's really not much you can talk about when it comes to Pirate Radio and after a while it would become a boring discussion because whatever is done in that realm won't last so it doesn't really matter.
I do believe that some forms of open discussion and feeling should be allowed we are adults and this is a r radio forum.
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Post by End80 on Feb 24, 2019 4:11:51 GMT
Ok, since the ALPB forum is no more.. maybe change the "Welcome to the ALPB forums" at the head of the "general" category (and wherever else it might say that) with the new name. And maybe add some kind of pinned forum overview somewhere, Didn't see one but I might have missed it. Maybe even give the forum a new look besides just the banner change - not that's there anything wrong with it now, it's just a suggestion.
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Post by Admin on Feb 24, 2019 14:48:20 GMT
Yes, loose ends to tie up.
At some point I would like to have someone take over as admin. Since there will always be a shadow over my "power grab" I think it would be best for the forum if I were to bow out as far as controlling interests go.
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Post by End80 on Feb 24, 2019 15:30:07 GMT
If that be the case, Boomer has always struck me as consciences, I think he would be a good candidate for the position.
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Post by thelegacy on Feb 24, 2019 19:04:13 GMT
If I were admin I'd simply run it the way The Initiative board does.Better yet if this board dies then we could just use The Initiative. the-initiative.boards.net
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Post by End80 on Feb 24, 2019 22:05:25 GMT
Mram,, It's really kind of strange when you think about it how bent out of shape people can get in regard to our little hobby (myself included), but when it comes to this alleged "power grab" thing; I'm not really getting it.. I mean, what power is there to grab? What benefit would there be if that were the case anyway? while I still don't really clearly comprehend how it all escalated to the apparent upset (that's not a question or request for further explanation) that this forum has undergone, the only thing that is evident to me is that after most everyone jumped ship, you had stepped up and made moves to resurrect it.. and then that too resulted in yet more complaints.. must be frustrating.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned there's no need for you to step down, and if you did, it's hard to say what difference it would make in the minds of those who feel offended anyway. Again, I think everything will come out in the wash in time.. like with anything, it usually does |
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