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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 15:02:27 GMT
Things We May Have Wondered AboutSo, I have a machine built from component parts built in 2007 running XP which I guess is a 32-bit system and a second machine running Windows 7 64-bit. Trying to wrap my head around all of it this article helps. This Article
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Post by End80 on Jan 21, 2018 18:25:13 GMT
The differences may apply to a lot of applications, but newer, bigger, better is not always the best way to go.
As far as I'm concerned, and in this I mean for station automation; Take an old-ass computer, wipe it clean, and then install a stripped down version of XP on it using a program like Nlite to remove everything and anything from the operating system except specifically what you need, dedicate that pc for only the automation and then do any processing externally (either hardware or another computer), and your station will operate smoothly and consistently for years without so much as hiccup.
Case in point: The computers I usually use for my automation are ancient, most of the time it's been an extremely old Pentium 1 Dell desktop with about 500mgs of memory (I forget the model and don' have it with me here at the moment, but it's really old, I had actually removed a floppy drive from it about 7 or 8 years ago to install a CDrom in place of it. It has a low profile metal case and lays flat). It's not wireless it connects to the internet with a cable. The only alternation I made was to upgrade the sound card with a Echo Mia MIDI, and put the largest old harddrive that I had laying around into it.
Like I said it's a stripped down version of XP (the XP install cd was less than 400megs) I use ZaraRadio with a connection to the internet so to access streams for newscast and weather announcements or whatever, and usually have the mp3 library on the hard drive but occasionally use an external one. The audio output goes into my mixer and processing gear, and then to the transmitter.
I usually would reboot every month or so, but I know there have been times it literally ran for a full year without reboot, and I can not recall ever having it freeze or lockup or get sluggish nor anything like that. I am convinced it runs more trouble free using an old dedicate computer, than does on a newer one! - Of course that's assuming your using Zara which does not require much processing power or memory.
Newer computers and operating systems are going to frequently glitch on you no matter what your running on them, there's simply too much going on under the hood. For reliable station automation go old and simple! Some of you may think that's complete nonsense but my experience says otherwise. I'm convinced it's the best way to go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 19:00:26 GMT
Advice Accepted with Appreciation
End80's advice: "Install a stripped down version of XP on it using a program like Nlite to remove everything and anything from the operating system."
My XP machine built from component parts dating from 2007 is wonderful and I am very satisfied with XP and see no reason to change it except for the fear tactic from Microsoft and others about "no support" dangerous to hackers and all that... and I wanted to protect against a machine breakdown so looked into the refurbished market for a backup computer.
So ignorant was I that I had never paid attention to questions of 32-bit or 64-bit, and acted on the advice from members at an ALPB meeting and chose an HP8300 for its reputation of stability, the price was right and it happened to be 64-bit.
As long as the older machine runs I will apply End80's method and try to nurse it into the future.
The marketplace wants to bait us with newer, better, faster, replace, upgrade, update, but when it already makes us happy why change?
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Post by Admin on Jan 21, 2018 20:05:35 GMT
As long as you dedicate the machine as a player and/or other local applications and don't connect to the internet you'll be fine.
Microsoft updates we're mainly about security patches. If your apps run OK that's what matters.
For a one PC operation that makes it a problem if you rely on the internet for content or steaming sources. You'd need a 2nd machine which is still supported for those things.
My main problem is that Dropbox dropped (no pun intended) XP support. As such the automatic file sharring no longer works. That is a big part of my automation and forced me to upgrade from XP.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 23:03:25 GMT
About My Mess
Admin suggests: "As long as you dedicate the machine as a player and/or other local applications and don't connect to the internet you'll be fine."
For now both computers are interconnected via LAN (Local Area Network) using Tight VNC so that a single keyboard and screen controls both machines.
The (older) XP machine is dedicated as the streaming computer for KDX Icecast and thus requires internet connection.
The other machine (Windows 7) is used for downloading and producing radio programs, also requiring internet.
By the way, despite the mixture of 32-bit and 64-bit that hasn't been a problem... I just found the article interesting... the problems I've been troubleshooting have to do with the poor audio engineering on the part of microsoft on all of their operating systems. It's very disorganized and poorly documented.
Tonight I'm so perplexed I can'e describe the problem in a coherent way, so I'll resort to nonsense, as recently mentioned by the Resident Hobby Engineer at the other forum site.
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Post by Boomer on Jan 22, 2018 3:05:11 GMT
When I'm 64Here's something that not many average computer users know about: Windows XP 64-bit, yes, it exists! It has the familiarity and simplicity of XP with 64-bit abilities, which means more than 3 gigs of RAM access. For just automation with Zara, audio cables like VAC or JACK, a limiter or processor software and a wave recorder, XP 32-bit can run them all on a faster Pentium, or even a newer Atom mini board, which I use in my always-on system, Atom, for 'green' operation. I have XP-64 on a main PC, and with the extra RAM memory access, I'm more comfortable in multitrack audio and video, recording long files, doing video, anything that's more memory intensive, as well as 64-bit programs, most will run on XP-64. I've also tried Windows Server 2003, as discussed by audio forums, possibly on the Hydrogen board. That's a stripped down operating system made to run website servers, so it should be robust and fast. It's server, so you have to add the audio components pack. I tried it at the time, had it working, using it for a little while as a test environment, so no long term operation, but it did work. I've found that Windows 2000 is great for audio playback, automation, radio, and it's really small and sits mellow on your machine. Get a good old PC and add an Audigy sound card, still a sweet system, even today! My system on air at the AM station is set up as single computer. It's automated most of the time, but can go live, by stopping the automation and going to the board live through the line-in input. That means you get the same sound system and limiter as the automation uses, and can't hear the change from auto_dj to live. You can kill the line-in mixer input on XP and set up your mic and playback levels on the board before going live. That's all done on XPooch! PS: People making mean remarks about others they never actually met for tea, that's why I stay away from some of the boards. That's the real nonsense.. Boomer
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 5:03:21 GMT
With regard to the supposed Windows XP security issues. There are solutions.
Windows XP Embedded (for POS systems) is still supposedly being supported by Microsoft, and they issue critical updates. You can fool the update process into believing that you are running that version of XP to receive the updates. I've done it and it works just fine (despite warnings from Microsoft and others).
I recently built a Windows XP machine from scratch, using WSUS Offline to get all the updates, and then getting further updates from Microsoft via that solution (a registry change).
Modern browsers with security are still available for XP - Pale Moon is one.
Sometimes old O/S's are more secure than newer ones, as viruses and exploits are no targeted for them.
Windows Server 2003 is essentially Windows XP with some server components built-in by default.
Windows 2000 does run great, and is very stable (I used it for years, only mothballing it for good several years ago). But unless you already have a working system, I'd stay away from it. It's getting harder to find working drivers, never mind apps, for it.
There's nothing inherently wrong with 32 bit systems. You can't have as much memory, and it will tend to run slower. Plus, at least with Windows, support for multiple cores is only available with the more modern O/S's that have 64 bit versions (Vista on up, although I believe that XP 64 bit also supports multiple cores, just too lazy to look it up right now). I found it impossible to run Zara AND software audio processing AND streaming on single core machines (it would run for a day or so and then something would fail). Running automation OR streaming OR anything else is fine.
In general, I find that the KISS principle works great. Keep it simple, stupid. If something works, and you don't need anything else, keep it. Why change unless you have to (as Carl had to).
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Post by mark on Jan 22, 2018 5:17:03 GMT
This article and discussion seems to reinforce what I always thought...that the 64 bit is like a little more horsepower but I never cared much, a couple of seconds faster here and there doesn't matter much to me. I have now 64 bit windows 10 but not by choice, just the way the computer came with it installed. But like a car if you have more reserve power than you actually need or use it will work better in any kind of use without as much effort.
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Post by End80 on Jan 22, 2018 14:03:01 GMT
As long as you dedicate the machine as a player and/or other local applications and don't connect to the internet you'll be fine. Microsoft updates we're mainly about security patches. If your apps run OK that's what matters. For a one PC operation that makes it a problem if you rely on the internet for content or steaming sources. You'd need a 2nd machine which is still supported for those things. My main problem is that Dropbox dropped (no pun intended) XP support. As such the automatic file sharring no longer works. That is a big part of my automation and forced me to upgrade from XP.
I guess I'm just not a stickler about being concerned over my studio XP installation having an active internet connection.. It's not like I check my email or surf the web on it. The only reason for it being connected to the internet is to automate specific streams into Zara for the broadcast. I don't even have any virus protection on it.. Even if some malware managed to find it's way in and crippled the system (which is something that has never happened), a complete wipe and reinstall would take no more than a hour or so max (remember it's a stripped down, packaged and streamlined XP install). For any and all other computing activity I perform on another pc (which is usually a faster, more modern and secure pc).
So, in my case, for what it's used for, my XP studio computer being connected to the internet - security is a non-issue, and it's just the way I've always done it.
I'm not sure what your talking about concerning the Dropbox XP support.. It's just that now you have to manually set folder sharing permissions in Dropbox and XP can access linked content just like any other version of Windows can - I'm guessing I must be missing exactly what you mean, cause I'm not familiar about any particular issue XP has with Dropbox as far as pulling content from an online folder.... ??
With regard to the supposed Windows XP security issues. There are solutions. Windows XP Embedded (for POS systems) is still supposedly being supported by Microsoft, and they issue critical updates. You can fool the update process into believing that you are running that version of XP to receive the updates. I've done it and it works just fine (despite warnings from Microsoft and others). Sometimes old O/S's are more secure than newer ones, as viruses and exploits are no targeted for them. Windows Server 2003 is essentially Windows XP with some server components built-in by default.
Interesting options David. I've heard that about XP Embedded before, I'm pretty sure that's still what most ATMs still use. I happen to have it on a used POS I had bought, so I guess I could clone that hard drive for use in another pc, but I probably wont. The Windows Server idea is also a good option. The point about old operation systems perhaps being more secure since they aren't really targeted anymore sounds valid as well.
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Post by Admin on Jan 22, 2018 18:15:18 GMT
XP Drops Dropbox
Yes, I can go online with a browser, log into my Dropbox and upload/download files using an XP machine. But no longer will the Dropbox app install or run on XP.
The result being that placing a file in my Dropbox from a different machine is no longer automatically downloaded on the XP machine or vice versa.
I rely on this heavily as I produce files at the studio. The files go into the local Dropbox folder and nearly instantly arrive at the transmitter site Dropbox folder to go to air.
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Post by End80 on Jan 22, 2018 22:01:40 GMT
I see, sorry I never really used those features so I wasn't familiar, but apparently there are confirmed workarounds to it.. I'm not saying I know, but Windows Rerort: windowsreport.com/dropbox-xp-workaround/ says: "all you need to do is run Dropbox in compatibility mode “Windows 2000”: 1.Go to main drive/program files/dropbox/client > you’ll find two blue Dropbox logos > one is the .exe file and the other is the Uninstaller 2.Right click on the .exe file > select Properties > click the Compatibility tab > change it to Compatibility mode for Windows 2000. They also say another alternative is to use a tool called GoodSync. So as an uniformed suggestion from me, I suggest it might be worth giving it a try if you haven't already.
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Post by Admin on Jan 23, 2018 17:40:26 GMT
Stop at Go!
Hmmm, I check that but the problem now is the Dropbox install program errors out so you can't install it. It recognizes the OS as not supported. And the older existing install isn't supported by Dropbox.
Same problems on a Win 2k machine.
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