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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Jul 31, 2017 14:13:52 GMT
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Post by thelegacy on Jul 31, 2017 16:51:36 GMT
This is why the New Radio Revolution has been talking about a Separate Service AkA Microbroadcasting Service whereas your range would cover about 2 miles with a reasonable quality signal to a Good Receiver AKA Tecsun 310, 660, 880, Grundig 450 DLX, Rotel Stereo Receivers, Luxman, Car Radio's, The Sony Elite series receivers, Yamaha Stereo receivers and Home theater systems, Mcintosh, Onkyo, Carver, Technics (SA-206 or something in that time period).
I owned that Technics receiver in 1983 when I graduated from high school and I could receive a 10 Watt FM station for 40 miles away when it was connected to a Radio Shack outside beam FM antenna. This is why I believe we can get this range to those who appreciate quality FM receivers.
AM reception was quite good on the Carver and Technics receiver and that light in the middle of the display let you know when your dead center on frequency. That receiver did not drift off frequency when your trying to receive that weak Album Rock station sandwiched between two blowtorch Rap stations with their over driven base.
WITL (A country station in Lansing, Michigan) would normally wipe out any chance to receive WRIF (A super high quality Album Rock station in Detroit, Michigan around 1983). With that receiver I could get WRIF especially during temperature inversions and listen for Hours whereas I'd been shackled to Top 40 crap in Lansing.
Getting back on track The New Radio Revolution believes that by making such a service more manufacturers will bring back the quality of receivers needed to meet Album Rock standards and thus 1-5 Watts on FM would be more than sufficient to listen to music other than Rap and Top 40.
I believe that the FM band should be split according to music genra. For example Album Rock stations may ALWAYS be found on say 87.7 Mhz (If that was to be legal) or 100.1. Rock (Mainstream top 40 94.9 Mhz or near 94 Mhz. Oldies 97.5 Mhz or close to that, Country 99.1 (Or close to that) you get the point.
I believe that these Mega Watt stations need lowered in power and maybe allow say 250 Watts max to all stations. This would allow more localized programming.
Eliminate FM Translators for AM stations. If you want to listen to AM get a decent receiver and throw away your garbage Radio. Time to wake up the public and tell them to look on Ebay for refurbished units and force manufacturers to meet a certain standard in receivers. This saves energy and saves power companies the bburden to power KW stations. If I can receive a 10 Watt station 40 miles away on a Technics SA-206 receiver all receivers should at least have the same sensitivity and selectivity as that receiver. When someone complains to the FCC about interference the first thing they should ask is What receier do you hae and if it is garbage say to that person "Your Radio is cheap crap!" offer them makes and models of good receivers and bid them a nice day.
That is the end of my rant for fixing the interference issues in the USA and allowing a Micro Broadcasting Service.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Jul 31, 2017 17:21:24 GMT
So where do you want my licensed LPFM station to be?
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Post by thelegacy on Jul 31, 2017 21:54:51 GMT
From 88.1-91.9 Mhz. What Genre do you play? If I were part of the FCC all the stations would have to move frequencies to meet the correct Genre format. And if all stations could not be more than 250 Watts it makes your station a regular station.
The FCC needs to have a structure on the dial so as you travel you know where on the dial to find your format. I mean in Michigan you almost had it like that for a little while. What killed that was when theu started to put stations that should have been from 88.1-91.9 on the upper portion of the band. Good example is the Godcasters.
Honestly I doubt the FCC would restructure the band like that but we can dream about it. Just imagine if the Radio's were better you really would not need all that wasted RF power to get the range you need. This means less interference. In fact a transmitter that normally could go 200 feet may go 1,00 or more on that Technics receiver I had in 1983. And guess what folks it was Digital Quarts Locked.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Aug 1, 2017 12:57:43 GMT
From 88.1-91.9 Mhz. What Genre do you play? If I were part of the FCC all the stations would have to move frequencies to meet the correct Genre format. And if all stations could not be more than 250 Watts it makes your station a regular station. The FCC needs to have a structure on the dial so as you travel you know where on the dial to find your format. I mean in Michigan you almost had it like that for a little while. What killed that was when theu started to put stations that should have been from 88.1-91.9 on the upper portion of the band. Good example is the Godcasters. Honestly I doubt the FCC would restructure the band like that but we can dream about it. Just imagine if the Radio's were better you really would not need all that wasted RF power to get the range you need. This means less interference. In fact a transmitter that normally could go 200 feet may go 1,00 or more on that Technics receiver I had in 1983. And guess what folks it was Digital Quarts Locked. Here lies the problem. FCC licenses are issued based on technical requirements. Frequency assignments based on music genres is crazy. Our LPFM plays talk/news, educational programming like science and environmental issues, eclectic music playlist, Tim's Oompah Hour, Celtic, Irish, sporting events, city commission meetings, comedy, etc...
Now lets say you get your wish. Do have any idea how many stations would have to go dark? The costs associated with frequency re-assignments? You would basically be tearing up the FM radio band like an old road and taking all the houses on the road with you. Like I said, crazy notion.
BTW, you hijacked this thread.Our Schedule: wlsl-lp.blogspot.com/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 15:07:25 GMT
Crazy Notions
DHR is right. Sectioning the dial based on genre would force stations to have rigid formats. and WLSL is a perfect example of a station that has no particular genre but has every genre.
What if a classical station sold and switched to rock, but no rock frequencies were available to make a move?
Yes, sorting the dial by genre would not be simple or manageable.
But I will say this, part 15 micro-radio is the craziest notion of them all and I will not give it up just because of commitment to an asylum.
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Post by mark on Aug 1, 2017 15:16:19 GMT
I agree with Thelegacy that radios should be better and have standards of selectivity and sensitivity and on FM not bleed strong stations all over the band to block out the weaker ones. Ive been saying this for a long time. There are lots out there that are better than average(new Sony ICF-506 is one of them) but how do you tell people to get a better radio so a RSS-210/BETS-1 station can be received farther, or for more long distance reception?
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 16:02:57 GMT
Wow, this is a good example of how a thread can wander.
Although in some ways, it also supports the original poster (and me). Petitions can wander as well. And throwing in asking for everything but the kitchen sink dilutes a petition's message, and turns off the decision makers.
Any proposal writer worth his or her salt has to understand what the decision makers want to see. You want something. But you have to realize that THEY don't care about what you want. They care about their own mandate and problems. You have to somehow help them achieve THEIR goals, if you want them to say yes to yours.
So you have to, simply and succinctly, show them that giving you what you want also gives them what they want. Selling (and that is what this is) is all about solving the customer's problems (not yours).
Most decision makers will only look at the first page or two of any document (that's why a good Executive Summary is so important). If you don't grab their interest there, you've lost them.
You do have to provide technical details to back up what you're asking for. If you grab their interest, the decision makers may read that section, but more than likely they'll pass it off to someone else to make sure you're accurate. It's important, but it doesn't give you a YES answer - it can only give you a NO (if you don't do it, or if you're inaccurate).
So, if you're going to attempt to establish an FM micro broadcasting service, where none exists today, you need to focus on that one particular fact. Worrying about how to reorganize the FM band, or attempting to accomplish the virtually impossible task of getting the FCC to mandate better receivers, or talking about AM or shortwave, are just distractions, and virtually guarantee that you're going to lose the reader.
Similarly, spending huge amounts of time testing transmitters, antennas, etc. and worrying about technical details, while a lot of fun, is really just a waste of time if your goal is the petition. It's far more important to come up with several indisputable justifications for your service that the FCC might buy, and THEN working out the details. Any other way is putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by mark on Aug 1, 2017 16:31:40 GMT
Davidc is right, the thread did "wander" as I come in late and just respond to something else without going to the beginning to see the original post. But should I start another thread just to comment or agree or disagree with something else? We used to do an experiment at school where a person would say something and then the second person would tell the 3rd person and so on till the 30th person was told to repeat what he/she heard and wow!....was not close to what was said in the beginning. I guess this is just human nature.
Mark
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 17:24:34 GMT
An Old Indian Saying
A good idea branches into many trails
- Chief Oshkosh of the Ojibway Tribe
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 18:25:01 GMT
Oh, I'm not criticizing anyone. I do it too. It just points out that it's difficult to keep things on track, whether it's a Forum thread, or a document, or whatever.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Aug 1, 2017 19:42:14 GMT
An Old Indian SayingA good idea branches into many trails- Chief Oshkosh of the Ojibway Tribe And where is Chief Oshkosh now? He has been reduced to a label on overalls. Sad as DJT would say.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 21:34:36 GMT
Great White Spirit
Druid Hills Radio learns a lot at his university: "And where is Chief Oshkosh now? He has been reduced to a label on overalls. Sad as DJT would say."
My first girlfriend from gradeschool had a long career at the Oshkosh By Gosh Overall Company.
She looked great in a pair of those amazing pants.
She told me there was also a Chief Oshkosh Beer.
I think I'll look her up now and see if she finds my radio station worth taking a train to stay over for awhile. "And bring your over-alls."
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Post by thelegacy on Aug 3, 2017 15:58:45 GMT
I agree with Druid Hills and Artisan Radio that the document needs to Sell the FCC as if they are a customer. Working in telemarketing it takes 30-60 seconds to either turn someone on to your product or bet the Hang Up in your face. I suppose the FCC is about the same way.
The script should mention the issues with Pirates and Interference but not get too long winded and boring but let them know you may have a reasonable solution that may be a quick fix. Mine would be two things. One a database or way for the hobbyist to quickly find the frequency and micro power level for a small community signal without interference.
Getting the FCC to understand that the present model of corporate Radio should be the Only Radio on FM is a very hard sell in one page. This is a problem I've had to consider when starting this process. If its hard to convince the hobbyist we have a great petition platform I know its harder to convince someone outside of the hobby itself.
87.7-87.9 should be asked for in RURAL AREAS because as of now its NOT used. At least allow an experimental process whereas some microbroadcasters can experiment down there and be Legal. The argument that its soon going to be used for some sort of "Repack" to me is not important till they really decide. In the mean time if the Pirates were given a green light for 87.7 Mhz they'd change frequency and FM Radio would be right again. The Pirate could have a filter on their transmitter to block signals below and above the allowed portion say 87.1-87.9 Mhz but we know the first frequency most would choose which would be 87.9 Mhz. If there is a station on 88.1 their gonna have to use 87.7 (Some car Radio's won't go to 87.7 Mhz but with a few tree button combo's you can throw your car Radio into the International mode and it will go to 76 Mhz. This I'd advertise on my station so listeners can if they heard me in one car and not the other how to do the hack for their Radio.
The Technics SA-206 is easily hackable for 87.7 Mhz with the switch in the back. Some car Radio Radio's you hold Power and Up at the same time and it throws it into the other mode. Look on Google the hack is usually there for your Radio to go there if it won't out of the box.
Point is if you have a good station the public would do the simple hack for their Radio (which doesn't hurt it) and you get the listeners. The broadcasters get their way too cuz your NOT technically on their band. Yes some Radio's receive down there but this should be our first hard sell we use.
Broadcasters cry wolf about a 5 Watt station on their band in an area where it won't even matter. Give up just a small slice 87.1-87.9 Mhz and you'll cry no more. But how to say this in a nicer and more friendly way is the key. I know right now the way I said it is not nice. So I have to try and think back to my telemarketing days pretending I'm calling the FCC on the phone and asking for a Microbroadcast service and how this product helps them with their already growing problem. At least give it maybe 12-24 months let us have 87.7 Mhz. See if the problem goes away. I'll bet manufacturers would have a crystal controlled TX where the crystal is litterly soldered for either 87.7 Mhz or 87.9 Mhz. The filters could be BRICK WALL type filters.
Maybe have a KILL SWITCH back door whereas if your station causes issues the FCC drives by on the remote freqauency and presses the KILL switch and your sent a letter as to why they shut you down. This makes their job easier. Heck in some areas the electric company does it when you DON'T pay your bill they drive by and hit the kill switch by remote.
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Post by Boomer on Aug 3, 2017 19:28:24 GMT
First, I'm glad we can be more open to conversation drift, but I have to think it's natural, like sitting around the fire and shooting the breeze, having a pow-wow. Maybe it's disheartening when your carefully thought out post now sees a topic change after a few replies, I can see that, but I see it so much that it must be normal for that to happen. I've been to forums that hate a post's topic to change too much, I think they want to be a clean info resource on the topics, and there's lots of friction, and the padlock is put on some threads by admins, and I don't know, I think that's worse than conversation drift. If you have a good topic, you'll get to talk about it again. I kind of think this conversation is funny and ironic, it started with keeping your petition clean and focused.. I can't see where stacking stations by what they play would be workable, some stations change their formats every year or two, but it's good to think how things could be different and better than the status quo. It's all a legacy, (pardon, TheLegacy) of early radio being another rush to high technology at the time. First were the dreamers, wanting to broadcast the world's great concerts, operas and educators so that everyone could benefit from the knowledge, city or rural dweller alike, that was around 1910. Commercial venturists could see the value of collecting so many ears and advertising to them, so broadcasting was established with big money in mind, and that's the legacy we have to deal with now, with expensive operations, taxes and costly support equipment, big antennas, EBS/EAS, HD radio, easily afforded in the salad days of radio, but not so much now. There's been little room for the individual or small group to share in station ownership, even though tech is changed so that nearly everyone can do it. It's the mentality, the proletariat were only given the rights to be listeners and consumers and not take a more active role in communications with others. It made sense then, when the technology was too hard for most to operate, but it doesn't make so much sense now, it's just kept that way because of momentum and tradition, people not wanting to change, and a mentality where stations 'own' their space on the dial and are very territorial, locked in. Maybe if dial space was set up by formats, and stations had to move transmitters when changing format, it wouldn't be so bad. We could probably stand to look at things differently, as TheLegacy does. When you look at other radio services, they're all channelized, internet broadcasting, web radios, and especially SiriusXM, so people are used to that more, and I can see AM-FM radio looking haphazard by comparison. I see that as a virtue, I'm an intrepid explorer, but from some other place, some other time.. I have a new $10 portable radio that can tune down to 76 mhz, by Indin, which I call "Din-din" like being called to dinner. It's an analog tuned DSP with the step tuning, and decent for the price I thought. I hear nothing in the range of 76-88 but a few images from FM stations higher in the band. Boomer
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