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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 21, 2017 12:39:54 GMT
Excerpted from the below link: "The recently concluded incentive auction and repack also played a role in the dismissal. Because of it, the FCC said the petition was premature. Specifically, “because FM Channel 200 is in the TV Channel 6 passband, adding TIS stations on Channel 200 would limit the commission’s flexibility to repack TV stations on TV Channel 6.”Point of reference: 87.9 is FM Channel 200. Full Story here: www.radiomagonline.com/fcc/0019/fcc-dismisses-tis-petition/38818That being said, anyone who operates on either of these frequencies is a radio pirate.
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Post by mark on Apr 21, 2017 15:40:10 GMT
Wonder if thelegacy has seen this? 87.7 is the place where channel 3 was before because I used to listen to the audio in the car (which goes to 87.7) which was "global" TV here in Toronto before it went digital. But why are they thinking of "repacking" TV there?, whatever that means. To ease the congestion expansion of the FM band from 76-108 like other countries is a good idea.
Mark
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 21, 2017 17:23:00 GMT
More to the story as I've read dealing how the petition was constructed:
(1) The petition was considered Premature because there was already a rule making that allows improvement to the Audio quality of TIS stations on AM. The petitioners did not give a reason why they should be allowed FM (This could hinder our FM petition if WE don't come up with a valid reason).
(2) The petition overlooks the interference potential that TIS stations on channel 200 would have on co-channel TV channel 6 and adjacent FM channels 201, 202, 203 88.1, 88.3, 88.5 Mhz or explain why TIS on FM channel 200 should be primary with respect to those stations no does it consider that use on FM channel 200 is limited by international borders.
Repack aside (which the date seems to change for that) the petitioners did not demonstrate (by testing) the effect of this. The FCC in my opinion has some valid arguements but too I feel the petitioners could collect that data and re apply for this.
Whitespace devices do allow use there, so the FCC has answered their own question about this with the way that the whitespace devices scan for a open channel. The petitioners could mention this as a rebuttal and valid proven point. This is something that the New Radio Revolution will have to try with our argument for Very low powered Hobby Radio service somewhere between 1-5 Watts TPO.
The service (If ever approved) would somehow have to consult with a database and scan first before allowing an operator to begin broadcasting. As for a fee a license should not cost more than $5 per mile of transmitter range per month. For example your transmitter can transmit 2 miles to a car Radio in Full FM Stereo quality NO FENCE POSTING!! Pay your $10/Month and your good.
This helps pay for the service and keeps the FCC flooded with money since it all about what you can get from the operator and not about the quality if service.
This could even work for commercial stations since a 20 mile signal would cost them $100/month to stay on air. And at 50 miles it would cost $250/month to stay on air. This gives an even playing field for commercial and Hobby Radio and if a frequency is blank you buy it monthly.
It would be the same as leasing a frequency.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 18:24:44 GMT
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 21, 2017 19:16:54 GMT
While this may be all true, a wireless mic will not have an external antenna attached. 50 mW will probably travel a couple of hundred feet.
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 21, 2017 19:19:46 GMT
OK looked over the Sure information on the database. I wonder if somehow I could use my smartphone as a Geo Locator and register 87.7 for my STL and simply say that I'm transmitting my Internet Radio station via whitespace. Doing this could allow legal operation according to 15:236 of the rules.
Nowhere does it say you can't transmit in Stereo on the audio portion of analog Channel 6 meaning that if there was such a device I can use that and listeners could potentially tune to 87.7 via 15:236. It doesn't even say you can't connect an audio source to that device such as an Internet Radio receiver.
Hey maybe I can get my 87.7 signal to where its 100% legal according to what I read. I could have a tablet made into a legal automatically database generator for my 87.7 Mhz TX as long as I put it into the same cabinet. As far as I can tell you can have a kit. And at 1 Watt into a magnet mount antenna you can do quite a bit of range. There is your legal Hobby Radio under a disguised name "Wireless Microphone".
Even if I have to purchase a Sure wireless mic and rip off the mic element and pad the input and connect an Internet Radio receiver to it I'm legal so long as the device registers channel 6. If true I'll buy one and have a sighted person help me with that. Maybe the device doesn't even give the model to which I could just manually register myself as a Wireless Mic and away I go legally.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 20:04:41 GMT
My Take On Part 15.236
It looks to me like Part 15.236 describes how you can manually contact the FCC Database and register your intended device and location.
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 21, 2017 20:54:14 GMT
Do you have the exact link to register? How much power am I allowed? I hear its 1 Watt. So I could register my TX for 75Khz deviation FM 87.7 Mhz and 1 Watt? I know the Signstek CZE-T200 comes with a mic and is small. It could be registered as a ic. At full power its 200 mW.
Now if there is no limit to that power oh boy 5 Watts as a Learning to be DJ event could be useful or even to relay weather information to a area like mine whereas there is no weather information on the Radio. Music would be played as a filler as well.
We may be onto something. Even 200mW could be worthy for some range. Who will try with me to see what happens? Let me know.
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 21, 2017 21:04:53 GMT
I'm calling my spokesman for the FCC now and see if I can't get permission to broadcast down there. You know 1 Watt is it ERP or TPO? If ERP at a 26 foot coax loss to a magnet mount antenna may pass as only 1 Watt. Even if I have to buy the Source FM 1.2 Watt TX which is part 73 certified I'd need it to go to 87.7 Mhz. I'll look up the specs on that. It may be a go in just a few minutes for me that is.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 21:43:53 GMT
Part 15.236 as linked to by Carl allows you 50mw EIRP. Inside a building on ground level you won't get very far with that. Up high, unobstructed, who knows? Obviously not intended for the latter but I've been pushing trying to get low power broadcasters in white space frequencies to be considered equivalent to wireless microphones for the past while. It doesn't require any rule changes, per say - just an implementation or service bulletin.
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 22, 2017 19:14:51 GMT
Still with 50 milliwatts if you can get the thing up pretty high you might be able to do some good range. I'm willing to bet that the CZE-T200 and a waterproof case up 20 to 30 foot could do some good range I'm guessing maybe about a mile and a quarter. Just perfect for what I'm trying to do.
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Post by bluebucketradio on Apr 23, 2017 16:17:24 GMT
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 24, 2017 12:42:01 GMT
Still with 50 milliwatts if you can get the thing up pretty high you might be able to do some good range. I'm willing to bet that the CZE-T200 and a waterproof case up 20 to 30 foot could do some good range I'm guessing maybe about a mile and a quarter. Just perfect for what I'm trying to do. That's not the intent of this rule. The device will also need to be certified. A wireless mic is a wireless mic. Nothing else.
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Post by thelegacy on Apr 24, 2017 16:03:54 GMT
I'm sure as time progresses you might start seeing certified toys DJ systems that are going to be allowed down in the white space band. Remember this is how FM transmitter got started in the first place.
If I recall in the seventies didn't those Radio Shack and Mr. Microphones Wireless Mike's have FM transmitters in them? And in the beginning if it is not correct then I don't remember correctly but I'm sure in the beginning these microphones simply had a variable capacitor in them. They weren't very stable and you could just simply receive them with a FM radio. Then later on came the type of transmitter where you can plug in to your smart phone or your iPod or iPhone or whatever it is you want to plug it into. But remember it started off as a wireless microphone.
I don't doubt that at first it's going to be very strict and very tight period but however manufacturers will try to get certified and try to slip through that and eventually you'll start seeing these little FM transmitters for cars with the frequencies of 87.1 - 87.7 in them. They might even be limited to one frequency only such as 87.7 and be certified as a wireless mic or wireless transmitter.
One thing to look at in part 15 - 36 is are you allowed to transmit any sort of music? For example does it strictly say vocal only? If it does not say vocal only there is still a open area where as a person could transmit whatever it is they want to transmit on that frequency. This is where things become open and this is where things begin to morph into other types of things.
but for now I wouldn't recommend trying to register an FM transmitter as a microphone because there is something in the FCC website that states about falsification and how that can be punishable as a felony crime. So that's probably not worth it but we'll have to wait and see if later on different manufacturers begin creating these types of transmitters and if they do then that's where you're free to do whatever.
As long as they are certified you should be good right? Everything I have read though about the white space area pretty much talks about Wi-Fi and internet. So I don't know how this is going to go down because you're going to have digital signals mixed with analog signals and I'm wondering if they're going to try to put Wireless electric guitars down on that frequency as well? This could be something we need to look into a little bit further.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 16:13:44 GMT
Wireless Mics Pick Up Audio
Wireless mics used in recording studios and movie stages are used for everything and anything in the way of audio...
Wireless mics pick up orchestras, solo instruments, bird song, the sound of a streetcar rolling by, and the crowd sound at the March for Science.
In church the preachers can even tell Big Lies using wireless mics.
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