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Post by thelegacy on Mar 26, 2017 18:17:58 GMT
First of all thanks to Artisan for getting closer to what we're trying to accomplish at the separate group The New Radio Revolution. This is what Station8 was trying to tell everyone when he meant STOP he meant to stop thinking of Hobby Broadcasting as the same service as part 15. At least now we have this point made.
However I see some problems and gray areas that need to be addressed.
1. Minimal fee for a license needs to be more clear. Minimal fee should be (Free-$20) that is a definition of low cost. This letter leaves an open opportunity for the FCC to make it non affordable to the average individual who wants to hobby broadcast.
2. Ground and antenna restrictions need to be mentioned. Remember our rough draft mentioned this. I know you have the Elite access Artisan Radio so just something to think about.
3. Did you get some New information about proposed whitespace from 86-88Mhz? I have read proposed WiFi devices in white space areas. However nothing was mentioned about broadcasting audio in that area.
4. You mentioned certified equipment. I know your meaning certified transmitter. However you mentioned certified equipment. This could mean anything from mixers, limiters, monitors, even the audio source such as your computer. So if someone uses a Radio Shack mixer an inspector could say "Oh you can't have that!"
5. The FCC does tell you how they want a draft letter to look like on their website. Your letter would make a good cover letter to a petition however their needs to be an outline in the letter. The cover letter cannot exceed one page. This is a good start but again maybe we should work together on the petition that we have and somehow merge it.
6. I would take part 15 out of it and just say Low Power Broadcasters. So you may stand on your feet better if you don't say part 15 as this is a separate service because we're not lying to the FCC because we are actually trying to broadcast.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 19:09:55 GMT
Comments On the Comments
Before we end up with a large misunderstanding I must say that my "Open Letter to the FCC" thread is not a draft of a future letter that anyone plans to send later to the FCC.
The thread is, in itself, the one and only letter to the FCC... that's what "Open Letter" means.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 26, 2017 19:13:56 GMT
Everyone needs to come to the next meeting: Both Station8 and I would like to have you all at the next meeting because we're going to talk about this letter as we see that you guys want to actually work on a petition or letter to the FCC for a separate service for hobby Radio broadcasting. During this meeting We'll open the research that we've done and disclose more information.
I see more willingness from Artisan to do a petition letter to the FCC for improved FM hobby broadcasting. However theres some things that need consideration before the final published product. Remember that everything needs to be specific and to the point whereas no gray area is left on anything for the FCC to bust us on from a gray area.
Remember that the FCC is understaffed now so though your a lot closer and now I am seeing that your getting better lets actually work to get this petition finalized.
I'm willing to let Artisan do a petition if he wants and just remember that having it open will mean that other websites can and probably will steal your creative work. That being said if your okay with that we'll try and work together instead of being vague and trying separately.
Forums can be moved around in the Initiative site as well. But I think Station8 wants his part of the petition in our elite section until its ready but again if you were to write from your own work based on what your side has we could publish your petition in the public section of the site whereas anyone can read it even if not registered as a member.
Let us know what you think.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 20:54:07 GMT
Read My Previous Post
The Legacy you must have not seen my recent post (right before your most recent post in this thread).
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 27, 2017 1:46:46 GMT
I'm confused. It was starting to look like Artisan and you were starting on the same track to come together with the New Radio Revolution's efforts for change.
You must have posted the same time I did. Things were starting to get good as Station8 and I was going to help with your new letters. Why kill it now?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 2:02:48 GMT
Let's Talk
Oh good, TheLegacy has spotted my distress over a possible misunderstanding.
From what you and Jeff were saying it appeared that you thought we were preparing a letter to submit to the FCC... which is NOT what I intended to indicate when I opened this thread.
This thread IS the letter (an "Open Letter").
We could keep it going as long as we all know that this thread IS the ONLY letter that we are doing at the ALPB end of things.
I know you guys are doing a more formal document over at the Initiative site, and we are not crowding in on your territory.
We could keep this thread open as long as everyone understands that this thread is all we are doing here.
This is not a buildup to our meeting on Saturday. None of what we say here will be presented to the ALPB Meeting for further action for the same reason as before... we are not an activist organization.
Let me know if I should keep this thread alive.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 27, 2017 2:20:34 GMT
I think so if artisan and some of you independent of the ALPB want to. Maybe it should inspire us to somehow work together as Artisan and you seemed to want to work with us.
Did Artisan find something about 86-88 Mhz? This is something I've been thinking of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 2:55:04 GMT
Persuasion Accepted
On the matter of whether to extend the "Open Letter To the FCC Thread" TheLegacy says: "I think so."
All right then. We're going to issue a last minute reprieve and keep that gate open! I've got 4-minutes to get over there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 2:56:22 GMT
We've never not wanted to work with you. I think that there have been differences of opinion on the likelihood of obtaining community radio allocations with increased power in the existing broadcast bands. I've always believed that alternative spectrum, such as white space frequencies, present the best opportunity for true, low power, community broadcasting.
It's difficult for me, in Canada, to do anything with the FCC.
But if Jeff (Station8) already has a relationship with someone in the FCC, it would be much easier for him to call that contact and ask one question. That one question would then determine how to move forward. "Can white space frequencies, as they are now defined by rule <whatever it is>, be used for the equivalent of Part 15 broadcasting, i.e., community broadcasting."
If the answer is yes, then little else needs to be done (other than to wait for certified devices to appear). A secondary question could be "Would it be possible for a white space community broadcaster to obtain a license to operate there?" (to potentially use the maximum 1 watt power output).
If the answer to the first question is no, then the task would be to write a letter/petition to convince the FCC that community broadcasting in the white space frequencies would be a good thing.
I suppose it's also possible that the FCC has never considered the question, but you have to start somewhere. And there's no point in doing a lot of work if it's not necessary.
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Post by thelegacy on Mar 27, 2017 4:24:49 GMT
I could ask him to call the agent and find out. It probably too would not hurt to mention it in the letter in case it is something that they haven't thought of.
Right now Jeff has been quite busy with the RV stuff so I don't know if he'll be able to call and find out right away. But it is a question now that kind of looms in the back of my mind and of course between 86 and 88 megahertz is the frequencies of 87.7 and 87.9 which are already receivable on MOST radios. Some radios can go down to 87.1 megahertz.
That being said and the one watt on the white space frequencies could prove interesting as there's not much down there to interfere with you so 1 watt down there might carry a little bit further than one watt did on FM.
Keep in mind however that station8 has done some tests and we have found out that 1 watt had varying differences of range. It will still depend on your location and how high you are.
Still you had a great thing going with your letter and it does show that some folks are very interested in doing this thing. Since the letter was already made from you as well as us somehow somewhere we could all come together and do something good for the hobby.
I know at first we got off on the wrong foot with us having an Elite section but two somehow I do feel that some folks are still brain storming outside the new radio Revolution and if that's the case we still need to get together and come up with something.
I know that the Alpb is a separate group and our group is separated from that. So I still realize that if some of the members in the Alpb do you want to do this it's still a separate entity other than this group that were in on the form right now. However at the same time if we can all work together to accomplish a goal I think we could go far.
I know that myself and station eight have been a little hard on you guys from time to time but the point is that we've been trying to say that the FCC agent wanted us to come up with a separate service other than part 15 he told us flat don't mess with part 15 leave it alone. Your letter finally shows the interest in that separate service.
Keeping that in mind we must make it fair for everybody so if we talk about possible fees we need to put a cap on those fees like say $20 for the license. Reason for so is there are many folks that are in this hobby that don't have the mega bucks but yet want to be able to get a little bit of range and a little audience and I think that a 1 to 2 mile radius or a one to two mile range from the transmitter antenna is not really asking too much.
I know it's going to be Rocky when I say this but I can already tell you that the whole house FM 3.0 will do a one mile distance that is on the high power setting with the white wire that comes with it with the red roach clip. This is from a 1 story building. as Tim in Bovee has tested the transmitter on high power we know that it puts out 300 milliwatts.
I'm not going to go into it too much here but I do know that a 5 watt transmitter connected to a magnetic Mount antenna will do about one and a quarter to barely two miles from a 6-foot height from the ground.
That in mind we will have to consider the type of antenna that would be connected to a transmitter. I think we need to be careful about restricting the antenna to say vertical because if you're near an airport you would obviously want to make your transmission go away from the airport thus using a horizontal antenna.
In New Zealand the rules state that you can not use a horizontal antenna. This could be a problem in some areas.
When I was doing my free radio movement in Michigan and I had a transmitter in which I'm not sure what the power was I had it connected to a beam antenna to keep the signal from going towards the airport which was in the easterly direction. The Grand Ledge High School in which I was trying to reach was in a Westerly Direction. My brainstorming said point the antenna where I want the signal to go and block the signal where I don't want it to go.
The only reason I bring this up is because obviously in some areas you will want to keep your signal away from certain things that could cause problems such as an airport or a military base. So if you're one mile from the base obviously you want to point your signal away from that to avoid any problems of interference.
You guys have got a few good ideas and I think we're on the right track if we can all work together and this is a good thing because finally I think we're seeing something some progress in the hobby radio community.
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