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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Jan 20, 2017 17:54:34 GMT
David C said: "By letting Jim Henry know what we're doing, it'll give him some avenues for further investigation and allow him to decide what he wants to do, based on his budget, knowledge, etc."WA4JM Commented: "Shouldn't we make Jim serve a probation period before sharing any information?"  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 18:01:57 GMT
Audio Processing
We are writing a book for Jim Henry but as Hillary Clinton never said, "It takes a book."
As you sort through the mass-maze of what we've presented, you'll notice occasional mention of a thing you haven't asked about, namely "audio processor".
As you may know, an audio processor provides compression and limiting... compression makes the average level of the audio higher which raises it above the noise-floor; a limiter forces a top guard-barrier to prevent level from over-modulating a transmitter or audio stream.
DavidC mention a VST processor, which I have yet to try, Mighty 1650 uses a hardware processor, which I have previously done, and I use StereoTool (software at reasonable cost) which comes in two varieties: a StandAlone version which would work with the type setup described in the first posts in this thread, and the DSP Plugin version which works with Winamp Player V 6.66 which is what I currently use.
Now you know more than you know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 18:05:15 GMT
Druid Hills Radio Wants To Privatize Our Information
He said: "WA4JM Commented: "Shouldn't we make Jim serve a probation period before sharing any information?"
Of course this has been done by another website which also hides from viewers by banning their IP addresses, but my idea is to require snack food in exchange for information.
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Post by End80 on Jan 20, 2017 21:18:54 GMT
Mighty said: The method I use, even at the full power, is simply feeding a radio into the stream encoder.. That option has often crossed my mind, but I've never experimented it. My thoughts was that would best be done using two computers, one for transmitting and one for streaming, but I guess that's not necessary so. But I do like the idea of the streaming audio on the web being equivalent sound to the actual on-air broadcast.
Carl said: Having racks loaded with serious broadcast hardware makes a great show for advertisers or other people who visit the station because it looks like "the real thing" compared to a plain little computer workstation. This would be the way to go if your station was a business;
Yep, appearances make a big difference particularly with business applications. If it looks too simple, then observers aren't likely to be very impressed, if it's business you want it to look like they will be getting their moneys worth. A stand alone computer doing the whole job isn't likely to convey that.
David said: the mixer doesn't have to be hardware. Programs such as VSTHost support various types of plugins, such as compressors, equalizers, mixers, etc.
That's pretty interesting. I've never really looked VSTHost over before, but it seems with so much going on (Zara, virtual cables, numerous processors, other plugins, and mixer) all simultaneously operating on one pc would eat up resources rather quickly, and be more subject to glitches occurring.
Most modern hardware today is basically computer driven inside with software. That being said, there's plenty of capable older hardware available at reasonable prices on the used market.
Again, an interesting observation I never considered before. All my hardware processors are of the older second hand variety.
Probably my favorite setup (when I had my storefront on Bowen Island, and lots of space), was one computer for automation, outboard audio processing that fed into a 2nd computer to generate my stream (as well as my mono FM transmitter), and then a 3rd computer to serve the stream. Such an elaborate setup is really only required for relatively heavy loads, but on several occasions I was handling over 125 simultaneous listeners with nary a trickle of sweat - in fact, I maxed out my upload bandwidth way earlier than I would have maxed out the computer loads.
Wow, I suppose such a setup isn't at all cost prohibited considering how cheap you can get capable used computers for nowadays, and I suppose when something goes wrong its a lot easier to determine and correct where the problem is, but I don't particularly like the idea of the station being 100% dependent on computers (which I guess is a silly concern because I suppose that is probably exactly the way the big stations operate, though I assume they also have multiple backups).
I like the idea of, lets say if Zara locks up (which seems to never ever happen), or the computer goes kaput, I could just flip a switch or have a hardware silence detector somehow do it and send a cd or tape content to the transmitter - which of course wouldn't apply to the streaming signal, but I think there are cloud applications which can do the same automatically should the streaming source go down.
What I would like to do.. I think it would not be too hard to convert all my hardware processors to be powered via 12v (without using a power eating inverter), because it's my understanding that most gear actually operates DC anyway, and that there is components within that converts the AC input to DC for the processor to operate. That way the over air broadcast as well as the streaming with a laptop, could all be run solar, on the air even if power goes out for extended periods.
But back on topic.. I'm surprised there is no streaming tutorial on the main ALPB website under the "how to" section.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 22:08:06 GMT
Stream School
End80 surprised: "I'm surprised there is no streaming tutorial on the main ALPB website under the "how to" section."
Agreed, a tutorial on streaming would be something we should have on the ALPB site.
My knowledge of streaming is more than some people but I'm still very mystified by a lot of it.
As we do what we can, new developments are being introduced. There's a new thing called "adaptive streaming" which has been discussed on "This Week In Radio Tech". The best I know about it so far is that it acts in a "smart" way by dynamically adapting to changes in the digital environment so that it uses the least resources at any given time but re-shapes itself as needed to sustain quality.
Oh, and End 80 mentioned converting a radio station to low-power DC possibly driven by solar power... that's another area we really need to hear more about.
I will be sending phantom power out to the outdoor antenna for the SSTran AMT5000 which is being built in slow-motion... phantom power requires DC voltage... I'm thinking about a system based around 24 VDC that can also run emergency lighting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2017 23:54:54 GMT
Two Server Threads
I'm also running another thread about server experiments I've been doing, and there might be useful information over there that can be of use for those seeking knowledge.
Most recently I have been running an Icecast stream at 96kbps stereo, upped from 48kbps. That's double the speed. It really is pleasing and sizzling life-like with the better audio files.
Another big test will continue tonight after 6:30 PM CST when I hook up the same way as Admin (MRAM) and DavidC...
By the way, not having worked with BUTT for awhile I today spotted what could be a confusing double-use provided by the Encoder.... it is both an encoder and a recorder. If you run a short stream, maybe a live concert or such, BUTT makes life easy by permitting a recording of the stream for archival preservation.
But when streaming 7-days-a-week/24-hours-a-day it would not be helpful to record because the audio file would fill up most of the surrounding neighborhood, over-flowing all your hard-drives.
Solution: Don't press the red record button.
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Jan 21, 2017 0:00:07 GMT
Thanks Carl I will check it out. Streaming and Local Audio MonitoringJim Henry I just found your post that's been up for 22-hours! Don't know why I didn't find it earlier. You have asked: " So will BUTT, or Shoutcast, or any other application allow you to send your stream to both your transmitter AND the Internet? Any other software or hardware required? Thanks again!" With Zara as the Playlist from which audio programs are scheduled the Audio Output of Zara without additional software or applications can be assigned to EITHER the transmitter OR the BUTT Encoder for streaming, but that's not what you want or need. The solution is a software application known as a "Virtual Audio Cable" which enables sending the Zara Output to BOTH the transmitter AND BUTT Encoder. There is a free one and a paid one, several of us are using the free one without problems. VB Cable - Virtual Audio CableI am telling you this as a best educated guess, because my setup is different and too complicated to try to explain at this stage in your building process. MRAM 1500 and a few others actually apply the system I'm talking about here, and when they add their comments it may be further helpful. |
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Jan 21, 2017 0:07:02 GMT
Thanks Carl and everyone else. I'm aware of audio processors but I thought I read that the AMT-5000 did not require one. I could very well be mistaken on this, as I've reading so much stuff from so many sources. It would help I'm sure if I had the transmitter to play with but I am still waiting for it. Jim Audio ProcessingWe are writing a book for Jim Henry but as Hillary Clinton never said, " It takes a book." As you sort through the mass-maze of what we've presented, you'll notice occasional mention of a thing you haven't asked about, namely "audio processor". As you may know, an audio processor provides compression and limiting... compression makes the average level of the audio higher which raises it above the noise-floor; a limiter forces a top guard-barrier to prevent level from over-modulating a transmitter or audio stream. DavidC mention a VST processor, which I have yet to try, Mighty 1650 uses a hardware processor, which I have previously done, and I use StereoTool (software at reasonable cost) which comes in two varieties: a StandAlone version which would work with the type setup described in the first posts in this thread, and the DSP Plugin version which works with Winamp Player V 6.66 which is what I currently use. Now you know more than you know. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 0:38:08 GMT
Redundancy
It is true that BOTH of the transmitters from SSTran have on-board compressor/limiter which is very good.
What is different is that the best of the outboard hardware or software sound processors do more sophisticated functions related to allowing AM transmitters modulate well above 100% without distorting... advantage is it makes the station louder on the dial.
Also some processors will push the levels very high without any tell-tale artifacts that sound cheap.
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Post by End80 on Jan 21, 2017 1:26:56 GMT
Yeah, I agree, I have the older model SStran3000 and it has the dials right on it to adjust compression/limiting and it sounds good, so I wouldn't be too concerned about additional processors right now, just keep going like you are.
By the way, I think I mentioned already that lately I have been using zero processing except for the software equalizer in MediaMonkey on my surface tablet, which is all that's feeding the audio.. , EVERYTHING in storage except for the Rangemaster which is now back on the roof of the bar next door with no ground, and being fed unbalanced audio (it's supposed to be balanced) via my tablet!.. But I tell you what, it still sounds good!, but I'm airing exclusively talk format programming which is much more forgiving than music.
I will be sending phantom power out to the outdoor antenna for the SSTran AMT5000 which is being built in slow-motion... phantom power requires DC voltage... I'm thinking about a system based around 24 VDC that can also run emergency lighting.
Not sure on your phantom power requirements to your antenna.. But you certainly don't need a 24v system for running emergency lightning, at least not with led lighting. I had bought some very inexpensive led waterproof led strips, about 32 feet of it, and I'm not exaggerating - I was able to sufficiently light the entire interior of my boat (the front berth, or bedroom, bathroom, closet, kitchenette, dining area, and rear hearth, and inside cupboards.. and it uses less energy than - get this - ONE of the original 12v lamps which only lit up the area by my table. Now that makes my boat sound really big, it's not, but its all separate compartments, so each area needs its own lighting. I could leave ALL those lights on for days on a single stand alone 12v deep cell battery, and still have a lot of juice left.
Just sayin'
--EDIT Carl, not to take this completely off topic, but this guy who's boat is smaller than mine, and not as divided, but his blog post about the led light stripping is what influenced me to do it on mine.. I don't know if it would serve your particular application but if you want to check it out, here's the link to his post: stingysailor.com/2014/07/19/led-strip-lighting/
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Jan 21, 2017 2:37:34 GMT
End80, thank you. I too do not plan to broadcast music so good to hear over modulating is less a factor for talk. I plan on airing Talk, News, the LPH, and OTR. Maybe do some interviews with local folks if I can get some participation. I've often said that I must never have received the "music gene". I have absolutely no aptitude, talent, nor appreciation for music. Well except for the Grateful Dead but even that has faded out since Jerry passed on. :-( I can always add a processor later if I feel it would help. You mentioned your 5000 is being built in slow motion. Did by any chance did you order it assembled and tested from Pat? I did and ordered mine from him on 12/6. A few days later he emailed me to tell me he had it in stock but had 5 others to assemble ahead of mine. Then about 2 weeks ago he emailed to say he would be starting on mine in a few days. Then a week ago he notified me that he became very ill with the flu and bronchitis. I'm disappointed of course but I don't blame him at all. I've got the flu my self right now. When I ordered it I knew it would take at least a month anyway, and as you can see from all the questions I ask I have plenty of other prep work to keep me busy while I wait for the 5000 to arrive. Next question: what is "phantom power"? Does the 5000 have the ability to run on -24 vdc? Thanks. Jim Yeah, I agree, I have the older model SStran3000 and it has the dials right on it to adjust compression/limiting and it sounds good, so I wouldn't be too concerned about additional processors right now, just keep going like you are.
By the way, I think I mentioned already that lately I have been using zero processing except for the software equalizer in MediaMonkey on my surface tablet, which is all that's feeding the audio.. , EVERYTHING in storage except for the Rangemaster which is now back on the roof of the bar next door with no ground, and being fed unbalanced audio (it's supposed to be balanced) via my tablet!.. But I tell you what, it still sounds good!, but I'm airing exclusively talk format programming which is much more forgiving than music.
I will be sending phantom power out to the outdoor antenna for the SSTran AMT5000 which is being built in slow-motion... phantom power requires DC voltage... I'm thinking about a system based around 24 VDC that can also run emergency lighting.
Not sure on your phantom power requirements to your antenna.. But you certainly don't need a 24v system for running emergency lightning, at least not with led lighting. I had bought some very inexpensive led waterproof led strips, about 32 feet of it, and I'm not exaggerating - I was able to sufficiently light the entire interior of my boat (the front berth, or bedroom, bathroom, closet, kitchenette, dining area, and rear hearth, and inside cupboards.. and it uses less energy than - get this - ONE of the original 12v lamps which only lit up the area by my table. Now that makes my boat sound really big, it's not, but its all separate compartments, so each area needs its own lighting. I could leave ALL those lights on for days on a single stand alone 12v deep cell battery, and still have a lot of juice left.
Just sayin'
--EDIT Carl, not to take this completely off topic, but this guy who's boat is smaller than mine, and not as divided, but his blog post about the led light stripping is what influenced me to do it on mine.. I don't know if it would serve your particular application but if you want to check it out, here's the link to his post: stingysailor.com/2014/07/19/led-strip-lighting/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 2:53:28 GMT
End80 said "...I don't particularly like the idea of the station being 100% dependent on computers..."
In some ways, it's actually easier than straight electronic hardware. In the 3 computer setup I had, I actually had each computer configured to be able to run standalone if necessary. If one went down (and I did have a few outages), the remaining 2 or even 1 could be restarted to cover for the others with relative ease (perhaps just a few cables moved, or changed to Virtual Cables. I had all key data stored on external hard drives that were duplicated (if one failed, the other took over) and the data drives could easily be moved.
I had a 2nd (and in fact, even a 3rd) Decade MS-100 available in case the 1st failed (it never did - it transmitted 24/7 for multiple years with no hiccups). I actually sold one of those Decades, never used, to Mark, fellow Forum member. The only hardware I didn't duplicate was my Mackie mixer, but since virtually all programming was prerecorded, I could live without it for a short period of time. I had a 2nd Symetrix 421 for audio processing (I liked that piece of equipment so much that I bought another one just recently - I had sold the ones I had when I shut the station down). And I only had one Internet connection - if I were really serious (and not as mindful of cost), I could have gotten a 2nd from a different service provider. If the primary link went down, I could have transferred the DNS IP address for ArtisanRadio.com (and .ca) over to the 2nd and the outage would have been minimal. Fortunately, we never had any real issues with the Internet..
The computers were actually one of the cheapest components of the station, as they were relatively small, one time costs. The Decade transmitters were the largest, one time expenditure.
However, over the period that the station ran, the biggest costs were 1) by far, the storefront and 2) the ongoing costs of the Internet connection, telephone, business insurance, etc.
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Post by End80 on Jan 21, 2017 3:13:44 GMT
Jim, just to clarify.. The text in italic bold within my last post was a quote excerpted from Carl Blare's previous post, I was just highlighting that quote to comment upon it. I do not have an SStran5000, Carl does, I do however have a SStran3000, which I think is very excellent, but it's not my primary transmitter.
Yes, I do only air talk programming, but I didn't say I was over-modulating, just that I wasn't utilizing processing gear as I usually do with the Rangmaster, nor was it a balanced feed which is what that transmitter requires. My point was that it sounded surprisingly well even without it.
The SStran, on the other hand, does not require a balanced audio feed and it has it's own basic built in processing, thus making it more of a stand-alone transmitter, and it's a highly rated quality product, and definitely transmits premium audio sound. However I have no familiarity with the new 5000 model, and can only assume that it exceeds the quality of the 3000 which is it's predecessor.
My only familiarity with phantom power is in reference to certain microphones that require a power input to operate (usually from the mixer) - Again, it's Carl who was speaking about phantom power for the antenna he is apparently building for his SStran5000.. I was just alluding to his comment. So both that and if a SStran can run on 24v would be better address by Carl then me.
Lastly, have fun, don't expect miracles, good luck, and make the most of what is achieved. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 3:20:56 GMT
Information Exchange
That LED strip lighting looks fabulous, End80, and at only 12V you are right, I won't need 24V.
And Jim Henry, the AMT5000 requires 12V to run.... it comes with a wall-wart power supply or can be run from a battery or whatever else.
My outdoor antenna won't need phantom power, but the AMT5000 located out there will need it, and I am adding other stuff on my tower... a security cam and a light that I can turn on if I need to see what's going on way back there.
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Post by End80 on Jan 21, 2017 3:56:39 GMT
David, it sounds like you had everything covered pretty well, I guess that's why it was your favorite setup.
In my original set up about 10-12 years ago I had a Symmetrix 421 for a few years too, which made a noticeable difference in the sound quality of the aired broadcas, but that, along with numerous other pieces of equipment, and my first Ringmaster, all got stolen from the pier a long time ago.. it almost knocked me out of the hobby, but eventually I got back in the game.
When I got around to buying new equipment, I followed advice given in what I consider a very interesting and well written article at the Rangemaster site www.am1000rangemaster.com/amprocessing.html which suggested that the Apex Compellor and Dominator was ideal, so I included a pair in my equipment.. However, since then I have been instructed that the Compeller is not actually considered the right equipment for AM at all, nevertheless I notice my signal sounds better with than without it, but I always planned to replace it with one of the CRS AM processor units, but never did. The Dominator definitely seems to help range.
I've got a list of most of my equipment detailed here: www.end80radio.com/equipment.htm, although I don't actually utilize all of it. Indecently, I have not been able to access editing my site for years.. It's a free hosting service and when I contacted them I can't get in, they tell me that the hosted files belongs to some guy named Boris Sombreteria (or something like that) -the sons of bitches won't let me have access to it! - I spent a lot of work and time building that site! - I don't know how all that happened, ut I'm not particularly concerned, I have the domain registered elsewhere, and when I get back in the game I'll simple put my site on a paid server and reroute my end80radio domain to that. I think they just want me to switch to their paid hosting plan, and holding my files hostage, but there's no way I would ever do that. Son of a bitches. My art work, name, location and email is all over that site, how can they say it's not mine with a straight face!
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