|
Post by sparepart on Feb 17, 2021 1:25:08 GMT
As a practical question: Say the volunteer staff of a LPFM is spending a lot of time importing physical CD they own into their automation system and normalizing the levels. What legal concerns do they have if they *give* a portable hard drive to another LPFM (that owns copies of the same material on factory CD's) to avoid the second LPFM from burning even more volunteers hours? Example: LPFM #1 - Owns a physical CD of "acme barnyard songs", imports it to the automation from the original media LPFM #2 - Owns a physical CD of "acme barnyard songs", imports it to the automation from a portable hard drive provide by LPFM#1 Realistically, there is no way to tell this was done, however the music companies have buildings full of lawyers....
SP
|
|
|
Post by mark on Feb 17, 2021 20:25:10 GMT
Not sure I understand this situation but just an opinion.
Assume LPFM stations are paying music license fees. If one station imports, makes a second copy, of their own CD collection, even someones collection that is an employee/volunteer there, and does the sound levelling and other processing for air play, and then gives that finished product to station #2 for them to use being already processed ready to go? Well, why would they do that if the other station #2 has the same CDs and can do the same thing? As for legality, well I think it could be argued that station 2 didn't originate their own programing but if both stations are paying for music rights I don't see how that matters.
A comparison could be made, and just an opinion, but a good lawyer may say that if you have a record or CD and you make a copy for a friend, to draw a parallel, it's a copyright infringement as the other didn't pay for it at the store and therefore didn't pay the rights to have that record.
It could even be argued that a volunteer who is not technically employed by the station gives his/hers record/CD collection to the station to use for on air play is the same as the giving it to a friend argument. But now that I think about it if station #1 makes an on air playlist from the volunteers donation and then the station gives the hard drive to station #2 it could be considered an unauthorized reproduction but like you said how would anyone know station#2 is using someone else's program?
But again what do I know.
If you download from youtube downloader songs for your playlist is there any evidence of that with the finished playlist that that's how it was made?
Half of my playlist for my part 15 station came from my own record collection but I don't have the records anymore. Can someone say with no evidence that because I don't have the originals I am guilty of copyright infringement? If you are station #2 don't worry about it if you are paying the music rights fees anyway.
|
|
|
Post by sparepart on Feb 17, 2021 22:26:19 GMT
Both stations are going to be paying a PRA, no matter what. Station #2 is not going to have to have their employees or volunteers spend "X" number of hours ripping media into the automation system and normalizing it (IE duplicating the work already done by station #1) Since station #2 has media that was purchased or donated, there is no loss of revenue to the artist or label either. There's a value to station #2, however station #1 is not being compensated in any way or form. What am I missing?
SP
|
|
|
Post by mark on Feb 18, 2021 1:05:16 GMT
I get it now. Station #2 will save a lot of work and time if they are the same format and another can do the work and give it to them. As for legality I don't think whether station #1 is compensated matters. If like you say, station #2 has the exact same collection on CD, tape or records there is no way that any lawyer could have any evidence that station #2 didn't originate their own playlist on a hard drive. If you are station #2, I think rest easy. You are still paying royalties to use the material. As for this copyright thing libraries have been getting away with this since their beginning.You can take out a book, read it, give it back and you didn't buy the book. It didn't get recorded as a sale. Same with records and CDs. The success of a book, record, what have you, is determined by # of copies sold. Libraries steal someones success! Millions read books they didn't purchase each year. Artists are denied revenue from their creations. They even have copying machines so when you are there you can make copies from pages ignoring the message any reproduction is prohibited. How many more copies of a book or record would be sold if everyone had to buy the book or record. If I was a writer or recording artist that would bother me.
So when it comes to all this about copyright there's a lot of hypocrisy. I just noticed as I read again station #1 only gave the BLANK hard drive for station #2 to upload it's playlist on? Am I understanding this right? Station #1 didn't give station #2 a complete playlist processed already? How is there anything wrong with giving someone a new blank hard drive? Again if you are station #2 rest easy
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Feb 18, 2021 2:04:51 GMT
"Copyright infringement is your best entertainment value"
It is good to listen to the wise words of the group Negativland at times like these.
|
|
|
Post by sparepart on Feb 18, 2021 2:37:07 GMT
"Copyright infringement is your best entertainment value" It is good to listen to the wise words of the group Negativland at times like these. have the shirt.... SP
|
|
|
Post by sparepart on Feb 18, 2021 2:39:45 GMT
I just noticed as I read again station #1 only gave the BLANK hard drive for station #2 to upload it's playlist on? Am I understanding this right? Station #1 didn't give station #2 a complete playlist processed already? How is there anything wrong with giving someone a new blank hard drive? Again if you are station #2 rest easy Should have made it clear: a portable drive loaded with the songs they already have physical media of ...
|
|
|
Post by mark on Feb 18, 2021 3:56:12 GMT
Oh. Doesn't matter if the hard drive was loaded or not, same opinion.
|
|
|
Post by sparepart on Feb 19, 2021 16:56:18 GMT
So here's what the lawyer said this morning:
"There would be no way to tell what the source was, provided you had matching media on the shelf. "If you buy a playout library, the purchase receipt covers that it was purchased and not pirated"
"However, if the industry decides you did something that cuts into their profits, expect the legal costs of defending yourself /your station to far exceed the cost of sourcing the library from a recognized source, and most importantly, are you willing to perjure yourself on how the music ended up on the second playout system" ?
He did note the rules are different for clusters that share a system, but LPFM cannot be run in a cluster per the FCC
SP
|
|
|
Post by mark on Feb 19, 2021 19:23:38 GMT
So easy, if you don't want to go to the trouble of creating your own playlist and processing and want to use another's just have an agreement with the other station with a bill of sale for whatever, any amount, could be $10, and the other station keep a record of the sale and you are OK. All is legit.
I revert back to my tiny rant about libraries when this subject of "pirate" and copyright comes up.
Here in Canada with my "part 15" Canadian equivalent AM no fees are needed for over the air and I checked with the 3 main organizations here and they did not know what part 15 or it's Canadian equivalent which is BETS-1 or RSS-210 was. I had to try to explain it to them and bottom line is they didn't want my money! I was told that "we have no requirement for that so you are OK no fees are needed". The manager of 1 place said she would love to check out my station! I had it in writing with emails but this was awhile ago and haven't saved the emails but if ever needed I could get for sure. I know LPFM in the USA is not part 15 but just saying I checked everything here with what I do. Everyone is getting away with stuff like music being played in a dentist office which is a place of business from a radio station or someones CDs and they are not paying rights for that. Places like stores that put speakers outside the door playing stuff to entice people to come into the store, like music stores, are they paying the fee for that? No, of course not.
There's so much hypocrisy with this.
|
|
|
Post by sparepart on Feb 20, 2021 2:07:33 GMT
Seems insane that an LPFM (a legit non-profit) will have to use precious volunteer hours (or worse, pay staff) to shuffle CD in and out of a drive to build a library.
However, that's what it will look like they have to do.
SP
|
|
|
Post by mark on Feb 20, 2021 4:39:33 GMT
Seems insane that an LPFM (a legit non-profit) will have to use precious volunteer hours (or worse, pay staff) to shuffle CD in and out of a drive to build a library.
However, that's what it will look like they have to do.
SP
Oh so the other station is station without the playlist. Yeah I hear you. But a LPFM can run local ads to cover costs I assume? You could recoup your expenses couldn't you?
|
|