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Post by Boomer on Nov 9, 2019 3:34:59 GMT
HD/MA3 would probably be something to experiment with on HackRF modular radios, and I would if it could be set up, just to try a new technology. At some point I'd like to program one of those DSP boards with C-QUAM stereo transmit, and there is some code for creating C-QUAM on one up at Sourceforge. C-QUAM should be trivial to do on a DSP, even adding the delays and equalizers needed to retrofit old transmitters for C-QUAM.
I know little about HackRF right now, but I know the basics of what it does with its IQ inputs to make any kind of modulation needed, plus filters and other support systems.
Tech companies should be nicer to the hobbyist market, I think it's a win for everyone. Motorola released a design for a C-QUAM decoder board to electronics hobby magazines around 1985. That was nice, but I never saw a hobby transmitter for it. A transmitter back then would have been a nice mid-level project for readers, helped people understand the system and its merits, and sold a few more receivers as people experimented and told others.
Having a transmitter at home wouldn't affect the radio station market, because they're on a different level, just like it wouldn't affect commercial stations to have hobbyist HD stations today.
Let us know if you get MA3 going, Legacy, or even your research on how it could be done. Ibiquity probably just took some then-current technology and hid it behind DRM and in an encryption castle with a moat and some gators!
Have fun with radio y'all!
Boomer
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Nov 11, 2019 15:00:05 GMT
Not wanting to pee on the parade but isn't hacking considered theft? Stealing code?
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Post by Boomer on Nov 11, 2019 20:30:40 GMT
Oh no, it's all for the common good, this is next level Robin Hood stuff right here.
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Post by mark on Nov 11, 2019 23:45:25 GMT
Not wanting to pee on the parade but isn't hacking considered theft? Stealing code? I didn't want to comment on this but I'm glad Druid Hills said it. Digital transmission is a patented system unlike analog frequencies and "empty space" on a band. Isn't discussion of hacking illegal operation? I have said in many posts in the past that if radio goes the way of TV mandating full digital our hobby is dead(unless the band stays open for analog). Empty space on a band wouldn't be anymore and you can't get a digital transmitter. As for the legality there doesn't have to be a law saying you can't. Hacking into something to steal it is not legal. Analog is not a patented system with codes. Anyone can make an analog transmitter for the AM and FM bands but not digital. |
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Post by thelegacy on Nov 13, 2019 6:27:17 GMT
And some of you guys just ain't getting it. The only reason that companies like Ibiquity is trying to shoved to the nabse throat thus the NAB is trying to shove down our throats that digital radio is so good is because they are only using it to try and stifle the competition called hobby broadcasting.
Now that their little Ace has been trumped by people in the know and people who will use the technology including myself I have no problem with it and I will use it if all radio start to go towards the MA3 format. There comes a Time when Hitler type rulers and corporations who practice these dick monic ax only to monopolize the airwaves be stopped in their tracks once and for all.
There are two forms of piracy. What is stealing technology the other is stealing the greater good. Let us not be fooled by the flashy promises of HD radio. It is a demonic attempt to try and rule the radio waves but what is worse is that HD radio will fail in an emergency situation. Digital and radio should never be spoken in the same sentence it just does not work and it's been proven a failure.
So call me a sinner for what I just told you do what you must do but I for one I'm going to fight for the rights for the common good if that means using technology that is being sold by an individual who decoded it so be it I will not be left out in the cold an album Rock will be played on the air it will not be stomped out by the demonic forces of top 40 in rap I have set it on my Facebook page and I even said it to the point where I was almost thinking I was going to die due to a horrible infection that almost got to my heart. I am dedicated to this stuff write to my dying day the only thing that's going to stop me is when my dead corpse is rotting and buried in the ground and that is a fact I have proven it time and time again I am dedicated to this like it or not.
Think of me as the modern-day Robin Hood. I am the warrior of the greater good for hobby broadcasting and I will not sit back and let this evil force by this evil company known as Ibiquity ruined radio with their IBOC bull crap.
And just to let you know it is not the kindness of the phone company's heart that long-distance became a flat rate. I was a park of a phone phreaking group that came up with the a n i jammer. A n i stood for automatic number identification which was the technology that the phone company used to bill you. What I would do is jam the a and I and made the phone company think I was coming from a disconnected number that's tried to build the disconnected number which was never in existence. Captain crunch started that and my group Gru on it I have lots of people in the group and let's just say I was a very active member. Some of my old friends from that group are apart of what just happened to digital radio and being hacked. I know people in the very high upper echelon when it comes to this stuff you have no idea who I am but I had many aliases and still do.
My group is why you enjoy the ability to call long distance without paying $0.50 a minute remember The daze well you can thank my group and you can thank me for making that happen. Now that you know a little bit about me you know why I call my station the Legacy nuff said about that statement digital radio will not ruin AM radio or FM radio if I have anything to do with it right down to my rotting corpse in the ground.
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Post by thelegacy on Nov 13, 2019 6:39:37 GMT
Oh and one more thing you talk about stealing this evil company that I speak of stole the AAC plus format and put their little rapper on it to make it proprietary. Yes that's right the format that they use for digital radio is the all-too-familiar AAC plus format with its own little rapper put around it to disguise it so who stole whose technology to begin with. This very demonic company that I am talking about is a thief within itself and the makers of a a c plus could sue that company into non-existence the stopping the HD radio technology because the technology that they use was stolen to begin with.
It all goes back to the commodore Apple fiasco whereas, door was accused of stealing apples technology Microsoft was accused of stealing apples technology it's just the way it goes one steals from another and then invents better code. Maybe somebody will take this code that Ibiquity stole and changed and called their own to make a better digital radio format that isn't an utter failure.
I think we should be able to talk about this stuff openly because that's the only way we're going to improve on technology. Being so afraid to talk about this stuff is silly in the first place and I'm not afraid to talk about it I've talked about it on my Facebook page and in several different radio groups that is only available to people in the upper echelon like myself.
And let you not be fooled there are broadcast engineers who let's just say are part of my group but they sort of disguise it. Anybody remember doc Brown of the Illuminati or how about the Grimm Phreaker Ricky Watts and a few other people. Those that are in the know understand what I'm talking about and it's not just dribble ish nonsense.
so think about that when you start talking about words like stealing technology because there are plenty of companies out there that do that everyday. Even the smartphone wars one is always trying to steal technology. Hex Samsung and iPhone are going at it for Apple accuse Samsung of stealing their technology. Again it's just the way it goes.
I hope this will ease some people's minds but hey if it's a problem I'll go to the other forms whereas we can openly talk about stuff like this in ways that we can stop this nonsense before it gets out of hand. Good luck with y'all.
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Post by mark on Nov 13, 2019 16:36:47 GMT
So Legacy if you do this how do you find “empty space” and how do you know that you are not causing interference? Since this didn’t exist before no rules were made for it but can’t that change? This is not all happening yet and won’t for a long time. Aren’t you jumping the gun?
Here's some info.........https://wikimili.com/en/IBiquity
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Nov 13, 2019 18:24:32 GMT
TheLegacy said: "...I'm not afraid to talk about it I've talked about it on my Facebook page and in several different radio groups that is only available to people in the upper echelon like myself.
"
Pretty arrogant. I like it.
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Post by thelegacy on Nov 13, 2019 18:37:56 GMT
No Ibipquity is an evil parasite that will choke off Radio. Digital is just beeper tones. Remember what happened when you took a computer program cassette and played it on a normal Stereo or cassette player? You heard MMMEHHHHOHHHH and you could use Dolby C noise reduction and copy the cassette tapes using two cassette decks.
You can hear Ibiquity's little digital tones below and above the analog station. It sounds like sort of a high pitched buzz saw. You can tell what frequencies have a signal on them using an analog radio. Hear the hash that is the evil Ibiquity at work. Pick a frequency that does not contain the hash tones.
Don't be fooled an 3rd grade child could tell that a frequency has Digital on it if not your deaf. You can also use an SDR Radio and look at the waterfall not that hard to see what is blank and what is not. Its just Ibiquity's way to stifle Hobby Broadcasting because people don't use common sense. Remember SSTV on Ham Radio? Remember hearing the tones? That Digital signal needs an analog beeper tone to convert to a binary format. Those tones change so fast you don't hear them change. They are 1's and 0's in binary code.
I promise you'll be able to tell which frequencies are blank even without an HD or MA3 Radio. So sorry Ibiquity your mission failed to stop Hobby Broadcasting. Now sign the bankrupt papers now and save yourself a lot of headache when your technology fails AND IT WILL FAIL that is the utmost certainly the case with a technology whereas you need a 100,000 watt transmitter and only can be heard 15-20 miles. What a waste of electricity when we're already in a crisis due to air pollution and limited resources for energy.
Its an evil that will grow like a weed if its not nipped in the bud. Exposing this to the public is the only way to do it.
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Post by mark on Nov 14, 2019 0:52:49 GMT
First of all the development of digital transmitted radio was not done with hobby broadcasters in mind with a vendetta to stamp them out. That's just an opinion. I have never an a regular radio even when no audio between speech sentences heard tones indicating there's an HD station along with it riding on the transmitted frequency. You are getting up in arms but the regular bands are not going anywhere. Nothing is taken away. The HD(digital) is there along with the regular analog bands and that's the system that N. America has gone with. With TV it was different. 90% of the population wouldn't be affected and the 10% that watched over the air didn't need a new TV they could just get a $30 converter and keep the TV they had. Radio is different. You can't get a converter and keep your current portable radio. They could mandate it and reallocate the band for something else and give you a 10 year window to wait for the manufacturers to make HD all digital radios, they could, but won't in our lifetime. It's voluntary.
Rest easy.
Also most of us don't have engineers that can "hack" into something and somehow modify a transmitter to get you on to HD radio. And I guarantee you that a rule WILL be made for this if the time comes. Ya, it would mean the end of hobby radio. What if...what if! Deal with things that are certain.
Legacy, if...and IF digital radio was ever mandated there would be at least a 10 year span from when it's announced and when it would be the end of an analog band. Then get up in arms. But for now talk to your congress people, the FCC, voice your opinion, See first what the intention is in regards to radio going digital before you get to excited.
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Post by thelegacy on Nov 14, 2019 6:29:01 GMT
I hear you Mark but I do want to be ready when it happens. That is why I want to have the encoder for MA3 and experiment with it in short times link less then an hour a few days a week. I would switch to MA3 and announce before doing so that this has concluded this portion of our broadcast day. We will now transmit MA3 for 1 hr and we want signal reports from those who have an HD Radio either in their car or in their house. Then I'll play Elvis Costello's Radio Radio and flip to MA3. Now I'll play a song by The Kinks called Round The Dial but in MA3 and play all music while I ride around Deltaville to see what the difference in Range is on my Engineer friends HD Car Radio. After I'm done I'll end the MA3 portion of the broadcast and switch back to beautiful C-Quam AM Stereo.
We just want to know the capabilities of MA3 with a part 15 transmitter to see what will happen. Its for science and learning purposes not to cause harm.
If the range is he same or greater then I'm all in for MA3. If not I won't me all in on it. I'll even try and video tape it and throw it on Youtube for all to see and hear the effects of MA3 on a part 15 station. I'm sure all would love to see that on Youtube.
I just want to be ready and not in the cold and my engineer friend told me he has me covered when this happens as he says he can get the encoder for MA3 and put it into the ASMAX2 replacing DRM with MA3 instead. Maybe its up on some open source site just like the decoder it would make sense if it can be decoded it can be encoded. You reverse the process.
You'll know when I have everything set for the experiment. It will be on Youtube on my channel.
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2019 2:42:20 GMT
Well now that the dust has settled lets see what we have.
For starters I don't see any discussion about breaking the Part 15 rules (read Pirate operation.) Yes, a pirate operator was referenced as a source for assumed illegal copies of source code, but that is not covered by the Part 15 rules.
Part 15.209, 15.239, etc. state that "any" modulation scheme may be used. So, there's nothing illegal about using "any" type of modulation provided the emissions follow the rules regarding spurs, harmonics and out of band operation.
It may be illegal, at least unethical, to violate patent rights (read unauthorized use of proprietary code) but do the Part 15 rules address this? Sounds more like a matter for business lawyers.
Mainly, there is a lot of heated discussion over difference of opinion. Discussion as the result of difference of opinion can be constructive, spawning ideas and plans for the betterment of the hobby. On the other hand, heated discussion breeds discontent, bad feelings and other which this forum will not tolerate.
There will be no "peeing" here.
This thread is closed.
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