|
Post by mark on Jul 19, 2018 0:13:49 GMT
They feel that since they have the green light from the FCC, as they think, they can be out in the open and do interviews in the local paper. It's a local paper and maybe an FCC agent hasn't seen the article or seen these forums.
Some time back Timinbovey posted about a write up in the Star, Canada's most read newspaper, about a "pirate" who was operating on 87.5 on Thurs. evenings only, saying in the interview with the Star reporter that pirate radio is rare in Canada and most wouldn't notice including Industry Canada a station down there. The article went on to report on the coverage which was quite a large area of the Parkdale area of Toronto. This was all done from his apt.in the area. So the following Thurs. I took my radio which goes down to 87.5 to the Parkdale area which is right where my brother lives(the car only goes to 87.7) and walked up and down the streets where the reporter tested for the reception with a portable radio and nothing! Probably got busted already! Not to bright on his part to do an interview in a paper that every employee and agent at Industry Canada goes home and reads in the evening. Wouldn't take more than the next day or when he was on the air next to get the visit from the Toronto office. Not to bright on his part. Probably why I heard nothing when I went there and that was just the following week.
After all he was in violation of BETS-1 by being on 87.5 and had a whole lot more power than permitted, to be covering the area the article marked on the map.
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Jul 19, 2018 13:59:04 GMT
I've heard of HD radio called Hybrid Digital, and it was probably the creators of the system, back then, looking for a good hook, an image for their brand that would sink in with the public and had good recall. I think they made a very good choice in the long term, no doubt about that.
Contrast that to DRM Digital Radio Mondiale from Europe. Here in the US, DRM in connection with media is not a well thought of abbreviation, since it also stands for Digital Rights Management, something a lot of people don't or didn't like.
Seeing some of the publicity about the Album Rock FM station, they do seem to be holding their ground like they believe in what they're doing.
Right, I think a ten watt AM allowance would be great to start with for community radio, maybe based on TIS rules that are already in place. Clone those and add broadcasting to it, while keeping the TIS rules as well.
The AM radio band is going through a slump as some say. The industry wants to go digital on AM, which of course is large amounts of money to be made off of stations by manufacturers of stereo exciters, and the engineering required to improved stations' antenna systems to handle those digital signals.
I haven't liked the idea of digital radio piggybacking on the AM and FM broadcast bands, it's been no help at all from where I sit. I'd rather have had digital stations on their own band. The good side of it for AM right now is that even with a few full digital stations operating and doing well enough, the AM band is more likely to stay in business, because that's a unique service being offered.
Boomer
|
|
|
Post by mark on Jul 19, 2018 17:13:43 GMT
Boomer brings up a good idea: A separate band for the digital stations. And leave the current analog band intact as I will repeatedly say that scrapping the current analog bands(AM or FM) for digital means the end of our hobby.
|
|
|
Post by mighty1650 on Jul 20, 2018 11:37:47 GMT
Boomer brings up a good idea: A separate band for the digital stations. And leave the current analog band intact as I will repeatedly say that scrapping the current analog bands(AM or FM) for digital means the end of our hobby.
I would've vastly preferred a separate digital band but the problem is we're running out of spectrum, even the C-Band is in danger of being sold off. As for all digital radio, its a double edged sword. As a licensed broadcaster I'm very excited about the prospect of digital AM based on the few All-Digital tests that have been done over the years, as a hobbyist digital is a bit of a problem given no-one can just go out and grab an IBOC license from iBiquity or whoever owns them now. (Not to mention the millions of radios that would become immediately obsolete, Though a converter could be made and probably would have a niche market to fill.)
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Jul 20, 2018 13:56:26 GMT
Our digital fates
The press surrounding the all-digital station testing in Frederick makes it sound like a new day is coming for the AM band, but then I realize how far we have to go to get there. First it has to pass the technical tests, then stations have to pay for new equipment, licensing the system and engineering to do it right, and this will not help the average poverty stricken AM station to get out of the ghetto.
The next part is receiver penetration, will there be enough HD radios to make it worthwhile to not have the analog signal? Receiver manufacturers don't seem to want to do anything to improve the quality of the AM sections in radios they make. If they did, they could already be sounding a lot better by programming their DSP chips properly or even using something like AMAX standards, but they're not, so why would they jump at the chance, and pay Xperi, to put in a digital AM section in? That leads me to believe that digital will only find its way into higher end radios, the kind that most people don't buy.
C-QUAM AM stereo had these same problems, high cost to implement, receiver penetration only so-so, causing a technology that really works to fall through the cracks.
That's another thing, the FCC has a history of only allowing systems that are compatible as updates for a particular frequency band or service. For example, color TV had to be compatible with the black and white TV standard then in use, FM stereo and AM stereo had to be mono compatible, so that all older radios would still work. It was a big issue too, a system wouldn't even have been considered if it wasn't compatible. Now with the idea that we could someday switch the AM band over to full digital, compatibility with analog seems not to matter in this case.
HD AM is part of the AM band; TV uses virtual channels, but with AM digital you're using the same frequency and bandwidth you had before with analog. It's a good thing too, the station's antenna system is tuned for that one frequency, 820 in the case of the Frederick station, you tune them in at 820.
I'm still not able to hear 820 here yet, but last night for the first time I got WGY 810 from Schenectady NY to come in on HD for a few moments. The analog signal had to be clean and free from fades, just a little bit of static, then digital would pop in and the display would read WGY.
As for Part-15 hobbyists never having access to HD technology, one day it could be hacked. The receiver side was hacked by a security company. I know that's iffy, but then Motorola's C-QUAM patent has expired, and now people are able to make C-QUAM compatible transmitters and exciters.
I wish that digital radio had been given its own digital band too, but then again, having to use their current frequencies might help keep the AM and FM bands in existence. In-band digital makes a mess, but if the FCC had shuffled off everyone to a digital radio band, they'd be more justified in closing down current AM and FM bands, as we've heard is being done in Europe.
Boomer
|
|
|
Post by thelegacy on Jul 20, 2018 17:49:36 GMT
Must we remember that even though TV went Digital the FCC allows LPTV on Analog Seeing this happen ask yourselves why can't LPAM (at 10 watts) be stillowed on a small portion of AM 1620-1700 Khz as suggested by my engineer friend.
Maybe now is the time to ask for change now that we're seeing future plans no?... We see yet another opportunity just sliding on by while us Hobby Broadcasters are arguing among ourselves watching our only window of opportunity slam shut while we wonder along like moths to a flame (The Williamson WV Classic Rock station hoping for a narc take down).
These Folks Want Change Maybe They Will Help Write And Pay Lawyers!! These folks are standing their ground. This is what I meant by Ride-Or-Die that I wanted in the New Radio Revolution. I'm not promoting Piracy or anti authority but when something is wrong we need devoted people to make a change. Just like Jesus's follwers were willing to die too for what they believed was right. Though I don't like what Jim Jones did there were folks willing to fight for him.
To make change you have to start a movement. Just like your bowels have to move or otherwise you'd die of septic poison as waste doesn't disappear on its own. Digital AM or the thought of it is the bowel that needs emptied otherwise it will poison analog Radio. WE may have a valid point to the FCC when we say things like "What about the antique Radio fans?" Telling the FCC our concerns about killing the entire band may validate the need to make the upper band for Hobby or small town use.
During the start of my FM initiative I herd "There needs to be a valid reason to present to the FCC other than you want it right? Some of you expressed your concern of an All Digital AM without first taking consideration the millions of Radio's out now. Our proposal would fill in that concern.
Don't let this one fly by without an outcry from what should be Radio enthusiasts who want to save what little is left of what started Radio is we all know it. Lets keep analog AM alive at least for those who want to play a bit.
|
|
|
Post by mark on Jul 20, 2018 19:59:05 GMT
I was always told by my dad from day one worry about what is going to be when it happens.....cross that bridge when you come to it. Don't worry about what if.
There are NO plans to scrap the AM and FM bands as of now....what if.... will mean the end of our hobby but it's not happening yet.
And even if this comes about and a time in the future is set like TV was it's a ten year transition before it happens from the time the decision is made. When it's actually official that North America radio will go digital and the count down to the official transition will take place THEN it's time to worry. All radio manufactures even Roberts in England, Sangean, Eton, Sony, Panasonic, Tecson, ALL MAKE A FULL LINE OF REGULAR not digital(DAB or HD) radios. Sangean alone has about 30 different models all great quality. What would be the point of manufacturing these and selling them to millions if the AM FM and other bands were going to be done away with. When it was official with TV the manufacturers stopped making CRT TVs and made the ones to get digital signals only...the LCD flat screen ones.
And I apologize to the moderators for not staying on the topic of this thread! I should have started a thread on digital radio.
|
|
|
Post by mighty1650 on Jul 27, 2018 14:30:01 GMT
The station is now off the air, didn't last as long as I thought it would.
|
|
|
Post by mark on Jul 27, 2018 14:48:45 GMT
Yup, a paper interview never does you any good. Probably a misunderstanding with a phone conversation with the FCC.
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Jul 27, 2018 17:58:40 GMT
IRATE radio stations
In normal circumstances, with a mainstream project, being interviewed seems like success, getting recognition for your work. That would be great if you built a park, or opened a business, people understand those things.
However, Radio's technical qualities are hard to understand by the vast majority of people out there, including most personnel at radio stations.
That could lead to a situation where if your station is exposed and makes a splash, people can misunderstand and fear it, because no one could have a radio station in their home, right? That's for the big people to do.
Commercial stations will see the article on your station and be jealous that you got press and they didn't, even though it's the novelty of having a radio station in your house, and with a tiny range compared to their operations, you're a hero that day, and it makes other stations queasy. Stations are competitive and look for weakness in other broadcasters.
Those with tech knowledge and commercial stations could exploit mass ignorance of the technical qualities of radio to complain and cause problems, stir up trouble. You're vulnerable and your listeners probably won't take a stand for your station, they'll tend to trust that the government is right, and you're more of a mad scientist.
You could probably hold your ground more if you're an involved station with a number of helpers who believe in the project and can write letters and get on the local media and give the station's side of the story.
This might make Part-15 sound dangerous, but for almost everyone that's not the case, it's just a fun hobby and a way to give something back and not just be a consumer sponge for media, or whatever purpose you like to do it for.
As for publicity, I don't bother with any promotion in online media at this time. It's local, so I feel there isn't much call for a website. I've had websites for my station before, but they're private in that the address gets announced only on the air, so only listeners would visit it.
Boomer
|
|
|
Post by mighty1650 on Jul 27, 2018 18:56:56 GMT
If you're completely legitimate a news article can be a great thing. The other broadcasters will get curious but likely would do nothing to attract the attention of the FCC, they would have their own engineers look into it first. Any call to the FCC that results in a visit will likely also result in inspections of any local licensed facility, something a lot of broadcasters would rather not worry about.
That said, broadcasters work hard and spend a lot of money to have their piece of the spectrum so naturally they are going to be on the defense.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jul 28, 2018 1:43:24 GMT
I've heard of HD radio called Hybrid Digital, and it was probably the creators of the system, back then, looking for a good hook, an image for their brand that would sink in with the public and had good recall. I think they made a very good choice in the long term, no doubt about that. Contrast that to DRM Digital Radio Mondiale from Europe. Here in the US, DRM in connection with media is not a well thought of abbreviation, since it also stands for Digital Rights Management, something a lot of people don't or didn't like. Seeing some of the publicity about the Album Rock FM station, they do seem to be holding their ground like they believe in what they're doing. Right, I think a ten watt AM allowance would be great to start with for community radio, maybe based on TIS rules that are already in place. Clone those and add broadcasting to it, while keeping the TIS rules as well. The AM radio band is going through a slump as some say. The industry wants to go digital on AM, which of course is large amounts of money to be made off of stations by manufacturers of stereo exciters, and the engineering required to improved stations' antenna systems to handle those digital signals. I haven't liked the idea of digital radio piggybacking on the AM and FM broadcast bands, it's been no help at all from where I sit. I'd rather have had digital stations on their own band. The good side of it for AM right now is that even with a few full digital stations operating and doing well enough, the AM band is more likely to stay in business, because that's a unique service being offered. Boomer, I'm fine with TIS rules as far as output power, but if I'm not mistaken TIS rules also prohibit broadcasting music or any form of entertainment besides news. Jim
|
|
mram1500
Junior Member
No Jab -Just Fact
Posts: 67
|
Post by mram1500 on Jul 28, 2018 2:00:46 GMT
Grey area. If you follow the rules, nothing but traffic related info and hazard warnings.
Grey because they left a loop hole saying content is up to the operator but should remain within guidelines.
But definitely no music broadcasting. Some get away with a music bed under a voice over.
Our TIS broadcasts traffic info, community event info and locally voiced weather.
|
|
|
Post by Boomer on Jul 28, 2018 4:03:43 GMT
When TIS came up, I was thinking of just that, Dr. Bob's input.
I'm thinking of a parallel service to TIS stations, under similar technical rules, but for broadcasting. TIS (Traveler's Information Service) stations operate by the hundreds throughout the US, and by all accounts play along well with established broadcasters.
Have a similar field strength, for a local quality radius of about a mile, and look to increase the frequency response from 5 khz to at least 10 khz for music quality, and allow stereo mode.
|
|
Rich
Full Member
RF Systems Engr (retired)
Posts: 112
|
Post by Rich on Jul 28, 2018 9:03:41 GMT
... I'm thinking of a parallel service to TIS stations, ... and look to increase the frequency response from 5 khz to at least 10 khz for music quality, and allow stereo mode. But unfortunately, virtually no consumer-level receivers of modern design have the r-f / i-f bandwidth necessary to demodulate AM broadcast signals for audio frequencies much higher than ~ 4 kHz.
|
|