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Post by End80 on Jan 15, 2018 16:50:51 GMT
Carl, I know you must be alluding to something when you emphasize "Swiss music", but for the life of me I don't know what it is.... Unless it's somehow related to Trump wanting people to come here from Norway instead of from "poophole" countries. But even then I don't quite make the connection.
Enlighten me.
Oh by the way, you say: "I greatly appreciate the scholarship found in End80's detailed review of the "information station" history"
I just want to clarify those are part 15.219 stations I describe, past and present the same, not the travelers "information stations" (ie: present day licensed TIS). My whole point is that part 15 stations which keep their range within reasonable check never receive NOUOs despite the fact that their installs are out of compliance.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 17:38:42 GMT
Easy to Explain
Responding to End80 Radio's inquiries:
I used the neutral genre "Swiss music" because I knew that if I said "album rock" then my friend TheLegacy would think I was singling him out since he also is someone seeking more range. I was banking on the old idea that the Swiss were famous for their neutrality in all things political, which isn't so true anymore.
When I referred to "information stations" I was using the expression in a broader sense, referring to part 15 services whose mission is to provide information. But it is about the same as the name of the commercial company "Information Stations", so I should have made a better distinction.
I appreciate these opportunities to explain any confusing language I might have used.
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Post by thelegacy on Jan 15, 2018 21:15:06 GMT
Honestly I would be happy if I could transmit from my location to the Deltaville Market which is about a mile and a quarter. Taylor's restaurant is only about a mile away. Most of the target area in that direction isn't too bad because I would get out to most of the businesses and residence in that direction. It's just the direction towards the Deltaville Market that I want to cover because many folks will be parked there waiting for their spouses and I want to be able to be heard. If I knew I could get out a mile and a quarter in that direction I would jump on the chance. I'm doing this to be heard I don't do it to just pedal around.
That being said I think I might know what I need to do to get range. I don't have $2,500 to $3,500 to spend on this project. If I did I wouldn't be on disability now would I.
Even donations is going to be challenging as it is because most people have a sour stomach when it comes to talking about AM radio it makes them want to puke just at the thought of the subject in fact when my frequency was taken I actually did spend a few hours puking.
Broadcasters make me laugh because on one hand they say am is not valuable to them and they want to go on to FM and the next moment they're bitching and complaining about Hobby broadcasters who want to get out a little bit and use the am band. You can't have your cake and eat it too which is exactly what the big corporates want to do.
As for an AM petition I think we could do it but it would be a different class of service it would not be called part 15 it would be called class-h for hobby radio and it could be done now is the time to do it since the broadcasters are already griping about AM we can turn that against them and get what we want.
Some folks just need to think outside of the box but they don't and that's why we get nothing done.
I say that if they say that AM is valuable fine keep your self on AM and get the hell off of FM with your stupid translators playing the same programming that you got on AM.
If I could only be FCC for 5 minutes that's exactly what I would tell them you can't have it both ways you either have a license for AM or you have a license for FM you cannot have both unless you want to pay $1000000 a month for your license then you can have a station on FM as well as AM that's what needs to happen they need to be charged a million dollars a month to have a license for both with the same programming.
I'm sorry to be so emotional but this stuff just ticks me off to no end. And I've seen other people do it but it's like the case of I can do it but don't you dare do it.
I guess what I'll do is continue to take a look at some of those pictures and see if I can figure out a way to do exactly what Atlantic Records did to get the range that they got. I did notice that they use an older version of a talking house transmitter and their ground did seem quite long maybe 20-30 feet up in the air. So in theoretically speaking that is if I had a 30 40 50 foot ground lead I should get that extra quarter mile that I need. This is just hypothetically speaking that is of course we're all one hundred percent perfect here and we don't bend any rules none of us ever had a speeding ticket or anything of that nature and we all go to church every Sunday and definitely put money into the offering plate none of us here do anything that is outside of that.
Now I need to go and pray for those who even think about going outside of the FCC rules that they aren't tempted by Almighty Satan himself. Here's my prayer dear Lord let us pray for the folks that go outside of the part 15 rules. We must not allow Satan to damage their little Minds. Let us not go outside of the illusion that only the Flies will be able to hear us. We must truly obey the gods that be. Thank you Lord for your help amen. Now let us do our Hail Marys and we should be fine. Or better yet maybe I need to go to the confessional and confessed to the priest that I'm thinking of going outside the range oh boy I've got a lot of confessing to do.
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Post by End80 on Jan 15, 2018 22:59:03 GMT
For crisssake Legacy, by all means do what you want to do. I'm just speaking my viewpoints in consideration to being as legal as possible. We all have different angles of looking at what way we want to do things. I sometimes get a little bent out of shape about part 15, and often feel like our hobby is being put in potential jeopardy because there are some who really abuse it's privileges to an extreme.. boasting 5 or more miles - Yes, it is possible to do with a 100mw transmitter, but it's not even close to legal, and I don't like it when they call themselves "part 15". A licensed TIS stations average range is only about 3 miles!
You know, sometimes, particularly in the past year or so, I will be browsing through my own post to look for some particular link to certain documentations I had previously posted about (I tend to use forums as my 'filing cabinet', cause I'm always losing things), and upon re-reading my post I think: "damn, I sounded like a fricken a-hole, I'm not like that!" - But evidently, sometimes I can be. I mean, when it comes down to it, these are all just toys, even the expensive transmitters - they're toys.. but they do have notable potential of being more.
So I guess - to try and explain myself and why I sometimes make such a big deal about our little playtime hobby.. My objective from the start has always been to utilize these transmitters as a business. I used to be the editor and/or desktop publisher of several local printed publications: you put the magazines or newspapers together, and sell ads to make money off it, and I figure I can use the exact same principle with radio, I only have to cover about two and half miles to cover the whole island.. I haven't gotten anywhere with it, but the primary reason I is because I have had so much difficulty with finding a method which I felt ensures it will not risk getting a NOUO in the future. I don't want to put this thing in motion, get support from the local community and take their money, and then have something like what happened to my once-upon-a-time hero KENC.
So I quit playing copyrighted music without paying the royalties and eliminated my long ground to make sure I don't get cited before starting this potential business venture (Who would ever invest in a station that got shut down by the FCC? What a joke). And now the farthest my signal goes is only a couple blocks, that won't work. OK.. new plan.. What will work without risk of a citation?.. The best bet is to go with what has always worked without risk for the last 50 years; do it more like Parks and Recreation does it - don't aim for extended range, just cover a reasonable area. Part 15 is Local Area Broadcasting., If I use the same methods as all those thousand of installs, then I should be fine.
Therefore, this is my newest plan: A Rangemaster on the south end of the island, a Rangemaster on the north end, and a Talking House in-between (maybe two), all on the same frequency being fed thru the internet by Ruko's, a few dead spots in-between, so any latency won't matter - might take a little experimentation and fine tuning, but it should work. I already have two Rangemasters (one needs repair), already have 3 Rokus, and Talking Houses are cheap, so I don't have to come up with much money to initiate it.
I guess I sound like an ass sometimes because I'm being selfish; I don't want people abusing the liberties of part 15 by blatantly and excessively disregarding it's legal limitations - not when they call themselves part 15 at the same time. I suppose if I was doing strictly for my own enjoyment then I wouldn't be such a stickler about trying to adhere to the rules. So yeah, I guess I'm being selfish and trying to protect part 15 from being associated with pirating.
So forgive me for when I try to lay judgment on what others are doing, but with all sincerity, I really am not judgmental about anyone, but sometimes certain things can touch a nerve of importance to me, and I get a little bent, but I get over it quickly enough, even though I sometimes slow to realize how I'm acting.
P.S. Oh, I forgot, I also have an SStran3000.. Yeah!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 0:38:13 GMT
End80 is the Beginning
Anyone who says: "When it comes down to it, these (part 15 transmitters) are all just toys, even the expensive transmitters - they're toys.. but they do have notable potential of being more."
Yes. What is hobby but play and what do we play with but toys, and what are toys but tools for realizing potential ideas through play?
Each one of us has a vision of what we're doing and if we have good business sense we want to do it right so that we don't end being disgraced for our genius. Many people get canceled because they're too smart.
Oh jeez, now it's me talking wildly and bashing on the keyboard in 7o temperature.
But I'm not trying to be silly or make jokes... take my setup. I run a radio station for my own benefit because I like listening to good radio programs and there are no worthwhile programs on the local stations. It works with great perfection and can be done without the worries that come with "range".
If I sold time it would be so advertisers could reach me.
If I met a woman up the street and wanted her to listen I'd start tampering with range (this has happened twice in my life). The world presents its hazards.
The ALPB exists to provide as much help as we can and an opportunity to talk it over, and we just held our 125th meeting and passed the 5-year mark!
Oh, and End80 has another thing right... to reach an area one needs to put transmitters close to the audience! Hear that TheLegacy? Forget about miles. Put transmitters close to the audience!
It's o.k. to bellyache and complain about not being able to afford something. There are many things that everyone can't afford. Our dreams and ambitions ignore the budget and tend to get expensive.
Nothing fails like prayer but one thing comes out of it... when we pray we end up with a good wish list of what we truly want.
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Post by thelegacy on Jan 16, 2018 3:51:28 GMT
Did you know that it is bad luck to have dreams of money falling from the sky or that you've suddenly won X amount of dollars? I've actually been told that if you dream something like that the opposite will actually happen to you.
There's something about some of those superstitious beliefs. That's why I don't go to sleep at night thinking I'm going to win millions of dollars. Although I never thought about what would happen if I had dreamt that I was able to have a transmitter that actually did something.
Anyways like I said I refuse to spend my money on something that's not going to get me out. And besides how in the world am I going to get money to pay for the rent to put a transmitter around those areas that I can't reach? I've often thought about that church next to the Deltaville market and what fun it would be to have a transmitter put right on top of that. Run a ground lead from that all the way down and you're going to be able to reach a long way.
But that's not going to happen unless I'm willing to play Nothing But How Great Thou Art and a bunch of Christian stuff. I don't have nothing against Christian music mind you but it definitely goes against any type of album Rock because I'm sure they would not agree with that.
The Dollar General is a big chain so I doubt they'd let us put a transmitter there. The only thing I could do is get to know the manager at the market and maybe put one there.
As I've said before the mile in the other direction would be just fine because most of the audience in that direction I would reach. And they would be able to get from the market all the way to where I'm at and then to the other side which is Taylor's restaurant over there by the Citgo gas station.
All I'm going to say and I'm going to end it right there is there's more than one way to skin a cat and I will get my answer and I will have the transmitter going. Some people might not like it but it's going to happen because my listeners want it they've been donating for it and it will happen I will not let them down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 4:15:44 GMT
Sleeping Dreams Are Not Exactly Real
Who would tell you: "It is bad luck to have dreams of money falling from the sky."
And why would you believe somebody who would say that?
And where did they hear it?
And why did they believe it?
I actually do dream of money falling from the sky. But it's a day dream and I am not asleep at the time.
In my day dream the missing trillion dollars that the Pentagon cannot account for falls from a cargo plane and lands on my mulch pile in one big bundle.
That pastor at the church might love album rock. I know many ministers and pastors and they are only plain humans and not as holy as you'd think. You might find the exact person who would give you a transmitter site.
TheLegacy, you are a thinker, but some of your thinking takes a turn one block short and a street over.
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Post by thelegacy on Jan 16, 2018 4:28:21 GMT
Okay according to the person that a lot of people don't like at the other website which I'm not sure if I dislike him after I've heard this he says that his procaster in his transmitter challenge test transmitted 2 miles. And to top it all off he didn't have any problems with the legality of it.
There was two installs that he did. One was with the transmitter on a fence in fact he had the transmitter a little bit short of the top of the fence. Even that almost got him out 2 miles. But with the optimum setup didn't seem to have any issues going out for 2 miles.
Now these words are coming from the gentleman who is the most Anti FM that I know. But now since I'm no longer doing FM I don't think he's going to hate me so much now. So maybe I should wait a while and REE apply for membership on his site. And when I do explain to him that I'm no longer doing FM then maybe he won't have any issues with me.
I'd like to see all the secrets that he did to make that procaster do that. Maybe he's got a video somewhere but you have to be a member to see it. Once I can see the video of how he did it and actually hear what the transmitter sounded like in his range test it would ease my mind a little bit and I'd have no problem buying the procaster. It did look pretty simple and I do like the audio processor in it and I wouldn't feel so bad about the possibility of accidentally buying something that will not do what I want to do.
If hobby broadcaster got away with making their procaster go 2 miles I should be able to get away with it and not have too much trouble in my rural area. As far as I'm concerned and as far as I know Bill has not gotten any sort of citations from the FCC so I should be able to mimic everything he did and still get away with it.
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Post by End80 on Jan 16, 2018 9:29:14 GMT
----------- "...As far as I'm concerned and as far as I know Bill has not gotten any sort of citations from the FCC so I should be able to mimic everything he did and still get away with it." ----------- Two miles is not particularly difficult to achieve with something like an elevated Procaster or Rangemaster, and though I've never had a Talking House, I suspect one installed outdoors mounted high with an engineered ground could do it to. As for getting away with it; First off, mimicking some one else's install who hasn't got a NOUO before, doesn't mean yours wont. But that being said, enforcement against non-compliant AM broadcast are not nearly as frequent and really never has been, as a matter of fact, there has been only one in the last three years.. However, in the 3 or 4 years prior to that there was like 18 of them - but when examined closely you find that many of those involved the same or related groups of people, and'or in the same general area, so in that respect it made the actual total to be considerably less.. It amounts to a grand total of less than a dozen since 2011 (Here's a list of them 2011-2018: part15lab.blogspot.com/2014/04/nouo-notices-of-unlicensed-operation.html) - Anyway you look at it, it still is insignificant when compared to 1,000s of citations on FM. Of course you also got to figure (compared to FM) there's simply not as many rouge AM broadcasters to begin with, so naturally not as many citations for it. Another thing; unless some on complains, chances are the FCC wont know about your station anyway, but; the farther your range, then the bigger the chance of someone complaining. Also keep in mind that pirate enforcement is much more in the public news now than previously, and also the process of someone reporting pirates has very recently become simplified and streamlined, so naturally that increases any inclinations for someone reporting you.. However, you still might be able to get away with it for years - there's no way of knowing. It's just like speeding down the highway; chances are you usually will get away with it, until you don't. I've heard it said that a 2 mile range can be achieved legally with a quality part15 transmitter.. I don't know, maybe it can, but I've never been able to do it, at least not with any useable reception, not even by bending the rules a little. But I have been able to exceed that range by breaking the rules a lot. But I personally wasn't comfortable with it and felt like it was just asking for trouble. Ask for trouble, you can guarantee you'll eventually get it. It's your station, you do what you want to do... until you can't anymore. ----------- "..I'd have no problem buying the procaster... ....it's going to happen because my listeners want it they've been donating for it and it will happen I will not let them down." ----------- Legacy, there's your answer right there to doing it legally. Have the Talking house at your studio location covering your general area and install a Procaster at one of you fans residence and feed the audio via internet to cover that area which is a mile and a half away from you - Problem solved.
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Post by End80 on Jan 16, 2018 9:40:49 GMT
Oh, and End80 has another thing right... to reach an area one needs to put transmitters close to the audience! Hear that TheLegacy? Forget about miles. Put transmitters close to the audience! You had said it first, it's even documented: ESSENTIAL PART 15 TIP
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Post by mark on Jan 16, 2018 17:04:55 GMT
To add...Legacy, The reason AM has no citations as compared to FM is not to many people do AM and few people are listening or care. To go to all the expense and trouble to do the AM set up, to maybe get the 2 miles you want is a big expense and effort to have no audience except for yourself. And that is if you have your own house and own property where you can do the set up with the ground/radials and outdoor mounting, even elevated. And on top of this your transmitter has to be at ground level because of the ground lead rule so that opens you up to vandalizm, theft etc.
Also, even if you can get 2 miles the market you are wanting to get to will be on the very fringe of your reception range and no way you will get into a mall or stores made of concrete with steel grid and that doesn't consider the electrical noise inside the stores. No one will be listening. Even the 40,000 watt commercial stations can't get in there. The only way to get to the mall or whatever is to set up your station THERE! How I don't know, or how to get the audio from your house to remote transmitters I haven't a clue how to do either. Don't have any idea how to send your audio via internet to a remote transmitter...and have that audio hardwired to the transmitter via the 1/8"audio or RCA audio jacks. I'd like to know how you do that.
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Post by thelegacy on Jan 16, 2018 17:33:04 GMT
My Talking House does 600 Feet at best If my Procaster does not make it to the Deltaville market I would need a house 600 feet from it to install a Talking House. Internet should not be an issue as a Smartphone or tablet or Barix box should work or better yet take a Laptop so I can either use Winamp and the equalizer to make it sound a (little suitable) for Album Rock.
I'm thinking the elevated install should work In a pinch I could do what Bill did and just ground it to the pole by drilling a hole in it and connecting the copper wire from the ground lug straight to the pole which is about 10 foot high. I hope that will radiate nicely and my reception should get to the market.
Grounding to the septic tank pipe when the Landlord digs up the tank soon If the pipe is metal it makes what? A buried radiator. Now the Landlord is talking about a dual tank. Running a copper line all the way to the other tanks pipe before the ground is covered may work as no one will ever see the copper wire. If I were to buy 200-300 Ft of that wire I could maybe cover the entire complex with an elaborate underground ground system. Since Deltaville only has one water company I could ground it to the cold water pipe and REALLY get out since it would radiate all the way to the water company which is past the Deltaville Market. Anyone who drives on the road would hear the station as it would act like a sort of carrier current system does except its ground wire current sort of like a buried coax. Maybe just grounding it to the pipes for the septic system from my pole should already work as I think the pipes would y off which would not require 300 Ft of copper wire.
This install would be close to what Joe the Ham dude did and the range I need should be achieved without much effort for a good TX like the Procaster is. I'll read that old wibsite with the hige ground too and see if it jives with what I think I can do.
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Post by End80 on Jan 16, 2018 17:53:19 GMT
The only way to get to the mall or whatever is to set up your station THERE! Exactly! Legacy.. The last time I'll comment about it to you: If you're dead set on pirating, then yes; you can do it with a Procaster with an extremely non-compliant install and accomplish what you want to do. It's certainly not what I would ever advise or condone, but I would never report you either.. That's your business. But if you want to do it part 15 legal, then you don't have a chance in hell unless you install the transmitter in the center of the area you want to cover. That's it plain and simple. Make your decision and do it.
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Post by End80 on Jan 16, 2018 18:01:43 GMT
What the frick is "Acting Lord"?.. Carl! are you out of your mind? Get that off my avatar please.
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Post by Boomer on Jan 17, 2018 1:10:36 GMT
Acting Lord is kind of funny, maybe you could enjoy the designation.. I'll be Prince Boomer. I'd want to add that, and not to cut your contribution down, I've read your blog thoroughly and appreciate the time you've taken to research and study and uncover lots of things that hadn't been brought to light previously. As we've seen time and again though, there's no absolute truth about the way something is going to play out, or one way to go about things, and even from the time a statement has been made things could change. There are too many variables, and analysis just breaks down. In the small spaces of Part-15 forums, destructive reverberation can occur, but I think it's just good to just lie back and enjoy the hobby more. Boomer
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