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Post by jimhenry2000 on Mar 20, 2017 2:46:43 GMT
I didn't get to ask about this at the meeting last night so here goes.
When installing a ground radial system under your antenna, I assume the copper radials should be UN-insulated for better contact with the earth, but please let me know if I am mistaken. Also any gauge better than another? I assume the smaller gauge (thicker conductor) the better. I also assume solid would be better than stranded if only because it would easier to work with. I've got a bunch of solid AWG
#8 to use but I will definitely need more. I also have bunches and bunches of AWG#12 and 10 but it is both stranded and insulated (and no way am I going to strip that much cable!). I'd like to get this project started soon if the snow ever melts. How important is it to bury the radials in the ground? My property is, well let's just say that if granite was worth the price of silver I'd be a billionaire several times over! I might be able to get the radials an inch or so into the ground but I was thinking of maybe just laying them out on the surface and then securing them with 8" landscape staples. I'm sure they would eventually work their way down into the ground. Also what is the recommended number of radials? From what I have read the more the better but assume there must be a point of diminishing returns.
Sodium Bentonite? I think I have read that adding it to your soil will improve your ground, but when I search Amazon all I read are applications for sealing ponds and as kitty litter, and that it is clay. Do I have the wrong item?
FINALLY - ground mounting my antenna over the radial system will necessitate running very long (approximately 150 feet) leads to provide both power and the audio signal to the transmitter. How do you guys handle this? I'm considering a solar panel and battery for the power but unsure what to do about the audio cables. Can you buy them that long and what kind of loss might be expected? I need RCA connectors on the transmitter end and a 3mm phone jack at the PC end. Of course I could just splice in more cable and heat shrink the connections but looking for what would be the best way.
Thanks.
Jim
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 3:25:26 GMT
Stand By For Deluge of Information
There's a heap of good information and options for all the questions raised...
For the moment I'll leave a couple bits of news that you will appreciate hearing... it does not matter whether the radial wires are bare or covered... I was surprised to hear that but think it was Neil Radio8Z and others who imparted that info.
For audio two possibilities: if by cable the audio must be balanced line, a 3-wire coax with 2 inner conductors and an outer shield. However there are several inexpensive and license-free wi-fi or VHF/UHF point to point links that can send audio.
It is perfectly possible to build a wireless system by way of solar power at the transmitter/antenna.
Maybe 24-hours before I get back... meanwhile others will likely have plenty to say.
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Mar 20, 2017 7:39:01 GMT
Carl thanks but I don't think I have enough info to go on.... Stand By For Deluge of InformationThere's a heap of good information and options for all the questions raised... For the moment I'll leave a couple bits of news that you will appreciate hearing... it does not matter whether the radial wires are bare or covered... I was surprised to hear that but think it was Neil Radio8Z and others who imparted that info. For audio two possibilities: if by cable the audio must be balanced line, a 3-wire coax with 2 inner conductors and an outer shield. However there are several inexpensive and license-free wi-fi or VHF/UHF point to point links that can send audio. It is perfectly possible to build a wireless system by way of solar power at the transmitter/antenna. Maybe 24-hours before I get back... meanwhile others will likely have plenty to say. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 15:31:53 GMT
 ?Jim Henry said: " Carl thanks but I don't think I have enough information to go on." Perhaps, Jim, you didn't notice that I said we were only getting started and that I'd be back with further information. When I did continue it inadvertently got put into a new thread linked here for you: Ground Radials Continued |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 16:15:37 GMT
Installment
Greetings.
In a review of Jim Henry's opening questions I find we have answered everything asked about ground radials.
As to the question about Sodium Bentonite I will pass because I do not know. Perhaps someone else may have knowledge on that.
The last section of what you've asked about is the matter of traversing 150' with power and audio.
I have already stated that IF by cable the audio cable must be balanced audio, and I'll assume you know what that is.
IF by wire, I have no recommendations at this time about the power distribution method at this time.
IF audio/power are connected by wire there is choice between buried or above ground, I am not the one to comment on best method.
You mentioned possibly using solar power at the transmitter and that might take care of the power need.
Wireless point-to-point audio by Wi-Fi or VHF/UHF is entirely possible to do inexpensively and unlicensed, but I am not amply equipped at the moment to link to all the good information that has been talked about on these forums.
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Apr 3, 2017 9:53:59 GMT
SO, if my antenna system is already installed, what if I install my ground radial system 100 ft. offset from my antenna? Will that still be effective or must it be directly below the antenna? I didn't get to ask about this at the meeting last night so here goes. When installing a ground radial system under your antenna, I assume the copper radials should be UN-insulated for better contact with the earth, but please let me know if I am mistaken. Also any gauge better than another? I assume the smaller gauge (thicker conductor) the better. I also assume solid would be better than stranded if only because it would easier to work with. I've got a bunch of solid AWG still be #8 to use but I will definitely need more. I also have bunches and bunches of AWG#12 and 10 but it is both stranded and insulated (and no way am I going to strip that much cable!). I'd like to get this project started soon if the snow ever melts. How important is it to bury the radials in the ground? My property is, well let's just say that if granite was worth the price of silver I'd be a billionaire several times over! I might be able to get the radials an inch or so into the ground but I was thinking of maybe just laying them out on the surface and then securing them with 8" landscape staples. I'm sure they would eventually work their way down into the ground. Also what is the recommended number of radials? From what I have read the more the better but assume there must be a point of diminishing returns. Sodium Bentonite? I think I have read that adding it to your soil will improve your ground, but when I search Amazon all I read are applications for sealing ponds and as kitty litter, and that it is clay. Do I have the wrong item? FINALLY - ground mounting my antenna over the radial system will necessitate running very long (approximately 150 feet) leads to provide both power and the audio signal to the transmitter. How do you guys handle this? I'm considering a solar panel and battery for the power but unsure what to do about the audio cables. Can you buy them that long and what kind of loss might be expected? I need RCA connectors on the transmitter end and a 3mm phone jack at the PC end. Of course I could just splice in more cable and heat shrink the connections but looking for what would be the best way. Thanks. Jim |
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 3, 2017 12:21:04 GMT
SO, if my antenna system is already installed, what if I install my ground radial system 100 ft. offset from my antenna? Will that still be effective or must it be directly below the antenna? I didn't get to ask about this at the meeting last night so here goes.
When installing a ground radial system under your antenna, I assume the copper radials should be UN-insulated for better contact with the earth, but please let me know if I am mistaken. Also any gauge better than another? I assume the smaller gauge (thicker conductor) the better. I also assume solid would be better than stranded if only because it would easier to work with. I've got a bunch of solid AWG
still be #8 to use but I will definitely need more. I also have bunches and bunches of AWG#12 and 10 but it is both stranded and insulated (and no way am I going to strip that much cable!). I'd like to get this project started soon if the snow ever melts. How important is it to bury the radials in the ground? My property is, well let's just say that if granite was worth the price of silver I'd be a billionaire several times over! I might be able to get the radials an inch or so into the ground but I was thinking of maybe just laying them out on the surface and then securing them with 8" landscape staples. I'm sure they would eventually work their way down into the ground. Also what is the recommended number of radials? From what I have read the more the better but assume there must be a point of diminishing returns.
ANSWER: I POSTED A LINK ABOUT GROUND RADIALS A A FEW DAYS AGO. THIS SHOULD ANSWER YOU QUESTIONS ABOVE. Sodium Bentonite? I think I have read that adding it to your soil will improve your ground, but when I search Amazon all I read are applications for sealing ponds and as kitty litter, and that it is clay. Do I have the wrong item?ANSWER: IT IS KITTY LITTER. FINALLY - ground mounting my antenna over the radial system will necessitate running very long (approximately 150 feet) leads to provide both power and the audio signal to the transmitter. How do you guys handle this? I'm considering a solar panel and battery for the power but unsure what to do about the audio cables. Can you buy them that long and what kind of loss might be expected? I need RCA connectors on the transmitter end and a 3mm phone jack at the PC end. Of course I could just splice in more cable and heat shrink the connections but looking for what would be the best way.ANSWER: I USE 4 CONDUCTOR BELDEN THAT IS SHIELDED. 18 GAUGE. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 18:12:18 GMT
Radial Mounting StaplesJim Henry reports having "Landscaping Staples" for holding his radial wires at the earth surface, and without knowing about them I would guess they should work perfectly well. Here is what I got...ANTENNA RF GROUND RADIAL LAWN STAPLE ANCHOR PINS 1/2lb avg 375 pieces... from Ross Radio Ross Radio Website
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Apr 5, 2017 18:51:46 GMT
Looks like that domain name is for sale but they are probably the same as what I bought. Radial Mounting StaplesJim Henry reports having "Landscaping Staples" for holding his radial wires at the earth surface, and without knowing about them I would guess they should work perfectly well. Here is what I got...ANTENNA RF GROUND RADIAL LAWN STAPLE ANCHOR PINS 1/2lb avg 375 pieces... from Ross Radio Ross Radio Website |
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 5, 2017 19:09:42 GMT
Looks like that domain name is for sale but they are probably the same as what I bought. Radial Mounting StaplesJim Henry reports having "Landscaping Staples" for holding his radial wires at the earth surface, and without knowing about them I would guess they should work perfectly well. Here is what I got...ANTENNA RF GROUND RADIAL LAWN STAPLE ANCHOR PINS 1/2lb avg 375 pieces... from Ross Radio Ross Radio Website Get some wire cutters and start cutting wire hangers. |
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Post by Boomer on Apr 5, 2017 21:52:58 GMT
I've heard about "Green" staples that are made of a material that will disintegrate over time, after the wire has been absorbed into the grass, that would seem to be the best thing. I don't know what the staples were made of, just something that holds for a while and then breaks down.
Exorbitant prices that those domain coyotes want to charge when you let your domain go! They're trying to make it look like a domain name should cost thousands of dollars and push the price up by constantly parading really big figures, when a domain name should be $10, ten dollars, a year to register and keep.
Boom
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Apr 6, 2017 6:25:43 GMT
Well when I acquired one of my first domains, years prior to the www when The Internet was merely text based, (airpower.com) I had several companies try to order me to hand over my domain name because THEY owned some kind of trademark on the name, which of course has nothing to do with a domain name! The most they ever offered was $18,000 which was low by a factor of 20 based on what some other domain names have gone for. It all depends on what the domain name actually is. Some domain names have gonen for$500k or more.  |
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Post by jimhenry2000 on Apr 6, 2017 6:52:33 GMT
Well today I set up (10) 30 foot radials around my ground. Not finished yet and Wednesday's weather may prevent further work. So a question for all is, since I am using STP, is it enough to bond the shielding ground or should one strip all the center conductors and bond all of those to the central ground??? Loo ks like that domain name is for sale but they are probably the same as what I bought. Radial Mounting StaplesJim Henry reports having "Landscaping Staples" for holding his radial wires at the earth surface, and without knowing about them I would guess they should work perfectly well. Here is what I got...ANTENNA RF GROUND RADIAL LAWN STAPLE ANCHOR PINS 1/2lb avg 375 pieces... from Ross Radio Ross Radio Website |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 11:42:58 GMT
Outdoor BusinessJim Henry wonders: " Today I set up (10) 30 foot radials around my ground. Not finished yet and Wednesday's weather may prevent further work. So a question for all is, since I am using STP, is it enough to bond the shielding ground or should one strip all the center conductors and bond all of those to the central ground" This will only be a guess, but I think if you bond the center conductors in addition to the shields it will "somewhat" improve the grounding characteristics of the radials. Or, if unattached, the center conductors may contribute to the electrical character of the radials by inductive relationship with the shields. One last comment on staples: I like Boomer's description of degradable green staples... I don't much like the idea of metal staples that, maybe, could become inadvertently pulled out from the dirt and be floating around on the surface but I'm not sure if they could cause any actual harm. Maybe the way to test that is to throw a few staples around the ground and see what happens. Too bad Ross Radio is gone... when Ross sent the staples he enclosed a hand jotted note which seemed to show that he thought I was a pirate radio station.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on Apr 6, 2017 15:12:00 GMT
Back in BusinessCarl & Jim are lamenting: "Too bad Ross Radio is gone... when Ross sent the staples he enclosed a hand jotted note which seemed to show that he thought I was a pirate radio station."DHR With Good News! You guys are using the wrong URL: www.rossradio.net |
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