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Post by thelegacy on May 24, 2018 4:36:58 GMT
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Post by mark on May 24, 2018 5:24:42 GMT
This is still just someone's opinion. I agree it's too late to clean up the a/c power and all the crap noise interference but it was mentioned that there could be a standard on receiver quality with noise reducing technology, wide band settings etc. Carver did it on their tuners so why can't any radio have better AM performance. The Ccrane is good but still does nothing about the electrical noise, which can be done as Carver has done.
I hope in my lifetime the analog bands aren't scraped for digital because that would be the end of our hobby. Unlike analog digital doesn't have frequencies occupied or empty like what we know now and we could never have a digital transmitter and find empty space like with analog bands.
Digital doesn't work like that.
But if that happened there would be millions of radios with empty AM and FM bands and wide open for us BUT only if they are not scrapped and it would still be legal for us to use them as now.
Thelegacy, if the AM band is scrapped so will our hobby and your on air station.
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Post by thelegacy on May 24, 2018 5:46:43 GMT
Or would it be just for commercial being scrapped?
Again the frequency wouldn't have nothing on it because all the stations would go to the expanded FM band.
That leaves me to think that AM would be blank.
If that's the case that means it's open territory for us.
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Post by Boomer on May 24, 2018 10:33:16 GMT
I agree with OldiesWMRK that it's one columnist's view that AM should be scrapped, it's just an opinion piece. My opinion is people have been writing articles saying AM is dead for 20 years, and I don't see why the need to bother writing stuff like that or even worry about it, like why be angry that AM radio is still around, how is it getting in your way as a columnist who writes articles on the internet?
Sure, AM is going to have to take a back seat to more dominant broadcasting, just like land-line telephones are still around in the age of the wireless phone, you don't hear about them much, but they are still there, just like newspapers and magazines.
I agree about getting 10 watt stations that individuals can get on the air without spending too much money. If broadcasters don't care about their band, then it shouldn't be too much bother. Some kind of wireless society will have to petition for it, I think if enough people want it, that would get the FCC's attention. There have to be promotion drives and people need to be ready to rumble about it.
Boomer
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on May 24, 2018 12:25:38 GMT
That leaves me to think that AM would be blank. If that's the case that means it's open territory for us. Don't count on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 13:00:06 GMT
Plenty of Meat On the Bone
That article linked by TheLegacy is packed with points that can be argued about and I'll pick just one for the moment:
It says that "it's too late to tackle the problem of electronic interference on the AM band."
That's actually stupid.
There's nothing preventing the FCC and other interested parties from carrying out interference abatement programs starting today and continuing forward into the future.
It's a giant job that can't be done sitting at a computer in an air conditioned office and it will require funding, and our economy is based more on warfare than maintaining civilized society, so there is political reluctance to mess with it, but it could be done.
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Post by Druid Hills Radio on May 24, 2018 14:15:15 GMT
Plenty of Meat On the BoneThat article linked by TheLegacy is packed with points that can be argued about and I'll pick just one for the moment: It says that "it's too late to tackle the problem of electronic interference on the AM band." That's actually stupid. I don't agree. The amount of Part 15 and other radio frequency devices that are out there is beyond the point of return. Lets start with PC's and power lines.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 14:23:01 GMT
If Only We'd Started Sooner
Mister Druid Hills says: "The amount of Part 15 and other radio frequency devices that are out there is beyond the point of return. Lets start with PC's and power lines."
The author said, "It's too late to tackle the problem of AM interference."
This implies that if we'd started tackling interference at an earlier time we wouldn't have the problems we have today.
Is he right?
Isn't the truth that it was a lost cause all along?
My suggestion of beginning now to clean it up is just as absurd as starting anytime, because it was always a lost cause.
Do you still disagree with me now that I do?
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Post by mark on May 24, 2018 15:23:20 GMT
That leaves me to think that AM would be blank. If that's the case that means it's open territory for us. Don't count on it. Don't count on it is right. Nothing sits empty and unused for anyone to occupy as thelegacy suggests. And moving stations from AM to FM with translators with very diminished broadcast range is not AM revitalization at all. As for opening AM up to hobby radio it already is and there's lots of space there now. Just not as much power as you would like.
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Post by thelegacy on May 24, 2018 22:58:05 GMT
It's not the power that you really need on AM. Thinking outside the box when I was with my engineer friend helping me to get my station rocking for this town.
All these commercial stations are thinking more antenna more power we've got to get over the interference. The answer is right there in front of their faces but yet they don't see it. Here's a solution that the engineer and I have already thought of.
Instead of rural areas which require antenna broadcasting abolish all stations running through an antenna and instead the local station would rent the ability to run carrier current on the local towns power lines. Now many of you are thinking some towns have more than one power company especially in a big city.
This is where multiple transmitter would come into play. Each station woodrun neutral injection carrier current on AM with enough power to get over the interference and to be receivable on those POS radio. I call it Force feeding a signal into a radio that might otherwise have a crappy receiver.
Anyone who lives in that city or town when they plug in the radio would receive the AM station on that town or stations in plural. The stations could be placed far enough away in frequency that they don't bleed each other. And the wonderful thing is they would be compliant with part 15:221.
But I'm sure the FCC would want to get their grubby hands on to that and start requiring a license for that. Plus I'm sure that the cities Municipal involvement and power companies involvement they would try and filter out neutral injection somehow to stop that from happening without charging the radio station owner extra money further privilege of just simply connecting to their neutral ground and running a radio signal through it.
However if and only this was done yes you could save commercial AM Broadcasting.
But you cannot teach an old dog new tricks is I have learned when it comes to this business.
Despite the fact that many Engineers don't like digital and for many reasons these commercial stations and certain members of government are pushing hard to try and force radio to go digital. Either in whole or in part even though like I said many Engineers don't like it.
We'll see what happens to the am band but I'm willing to bet that we will be able to use it like we are now with lesser and lesser scrutiny unto us for using it. That's a good thing for hobbyists like myself.
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Post by mark on May 24, 2018 23:29:52 GMT
I like the way it is now with HD radio working along with the analog bands.
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Post by Boomer on May 25, 2018 1:31:17 GMT
I think carrier current has a lot of potential, especially for smaller towns or as a 'hometown' radio station in boroughs or townships.
I've been watching carrier current for years and have never heard of any issues with the power company over feeding the lines, but then, most carrier current has been used within school campuses, so it's mostly the school's power system and wiring, and only incidentally reaches out into the community.
There have been a few attempts at community carrier current, but it seems to not have been documented too well technically, through actual field strengths or coverage maps. That would help, but in my experience carrier current coverage varies a lot, depending on how the power lines are laid out, coupling method, transmitter power and other factors. You just can't make absolute statements where carrier current coverage is concerned.
I think it's a good thing for any radio experimenter to look into. One problem is that broadcast by antenna is the method that caught on, so it's the establishment now, and people have trouble thinking of other ways.
Repeaters can be used to get the signal to different parts of town, maybe with synced carriers at zero beat, or due to the localized nature of CC signals around the lines, you might not have to zero beat the different transmitters.
I had an idea for a more efficient system than power lines, that's using a runner wire from pole to pole from a central feed point, which should carry signals farther than power lines that are less stable and more noisy because of all of the loads that are tied into them. Wires could be run in the ground for roads without poles.
Looking at the Wikipedia article on carrier current shows that some countries in Europe have had official broadcasting on carrier current, with radios made for the service too.
Boomer
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Post by Admin on May 25, 2018 1:50:59 GMT
Troy, If I'm not mistaken, at a previous ALPB meeting, you and Carl agreed to get your Amateur radio licenses in order to pursue lobbying for this goal from within the ARRL. How are you guys making out with this effort? Thanks as always. Jim
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Post by Admin on May 25, 2018 2:22:52 GMT
Carl, Thank you for saying this. It was also my first reaction to this article. I guess what I don't know is, "Is this interference legal or illegal?". If the latter then enforcement can begin. The ARRL has successfully led many campaigns against devices, such as LED bulbs, and BPL (Broadband over Power Line), that were causing interference to Amateur Radio stations. I don't see why a similar campaign cannot be run for the MW broadcast band. The main problem seems to me that legal low power broadcasters such as us just don't have much leverage. This is why, in my campaign for the Chairmanship of the ALPB I included in my platform positions for a Membership chairman, Legislative Chairman, and Director of Marketing for the ALPB. Sadly no one has stepped up to fill these positions. If anyone is on the fence about taking on one or more of these roles, You do not have to be a professional. You just need a sincere commitment to make your best effort, and whatever results you achieve will still be greater than if no one makes any such effort at all. From what I have seen in my area, some of the greatest offenders interfering with us are traffic signals, and the OSP of various electric utilities. Both of these should fall under the jurisdiction of your state's PUC (Public Utilities Commission) and sometimes other regulatory entities, providing a ready focus for our complaints. Driving around with your AM car radio, a GPS enabled laptop, and some software such as MS Mappoint, Google Earth, or similar, it should be easy to mark obvious points of interference on a map and provide good documentation to the appropriate agencies. Regulatory agencies are in one way like most large organizations. They will gravitate towards doing what is easiest. If it is easiest to do nothing that is exactly what they will do. However, if your repeated reports become painful to them, say, by also including your state and local representatives in your reports (as well as phone calls to all), then the easy thing becomes pleasing you and thus shutting you up. I have been down this road in the past and it has always worked out this way. I believe this is something we can do as an organization, if the effort and the will is there. Jim Plenty of Meat On the BoneThat article linked by TheLegacy is packed with points that can be argued about and I'll pick just one for the moment: It says that "it's too late to tackle the problem of electronic interference on the AM band." That's actually stupid. There's nothing preventing the FCC and other interested parties from carrying out interference abatement programs starting today and continuing forward into the future. It's a giant job that can't be done sitting at a computer in an air conditioned office and it will require funding, and our economy is based more on warfare than maintaining civilized society, so there is political reluctance to mess with it, but it could be done.
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Post by mighty1650 on May 25, 2018 11:55:38 GMT
Instead of rural areas which require antenna broadcasting abolish all stations running through an antenna and instead the local station would rent the ability to run carrier current on the local towns power lines. Now many of you are thinking some towns have more than one power company especially in a big city. This is where multiple transmitter would come into play. Each station woodrun neutral injection carrier current on AM with enough power to get over the interference and to be receivable on those POS radio. I call it Force feeding a signal into a radio that might otherwise have a crappy receiver. Anyone who lives in that city or town when they plug in the radio would receive the AM station on that town or stations in plural. The stations could be placed far enough away in frequency that they don't bleed each other. And the wonderful thing is they would be compliant with part 15:221. But I'm sure the FCC would want to get their grubby hands on to that and start requiring a license for that. Plus I'm sure that the cities Municipal involvement and power companies involvement they would try and filter out neutral injection somehow to stop that from happening without charging the radio station owner extra money further privilege of just simply connecting to their neutral ground and running a radio signal through it. However if and only this was done yes you could save commercial AM Broadcasting. Man that is such a bad idea I'm not even sure where to start to pick it apart. The single biggest issue is that the overwhelming majority of radio listening is done in cars and not homes, rendering the carrier current signal near useless.
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